Selection get out clause

[mrz]

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/grammar-get-out-clause-confirmed-selection-permissable-within-trusts/?utmcontent=buffer81f1c&utmmmedium=social&utmsource=twitter.com&utmmcampaign=buffer

2StripedSocks Mon 03-Oct-16 20:54:49 ... would infer there are a fair few areas with higher prices than that.

And a fair few lower.

"HPFA no many on that thread did turn out to be in expensive areas or held up by social housing which many on low incomes wouldn't be eligible for."

London has the best performing comprehensives and the most expensive housing in the U.K. In London expensive housing doesn't = everyone is rich.

MumTryingHerBest, of course children in deprived areas can have supportive parents, that was the point I am making. A supportive parent can practice football everyday, tutor to pass the 11+, learn a musical instrument etc all at no financial cost. That's why selection is fairer than the wealth selection we have at the moment.

Elly Those links are very interesting. Especially as the DT picked out Oxford. One school in Oxford has always been seen as more desirable than the rest but I wonder if that's the result of it being in an expensive area rather than the cause? I think if the school was closed down that would still be a very expensive place to live.

The LSE also posits that part of the attraction of these schools is the fact that they are socially selective. Which is kind of depressing because it seems to suggest that even if other schools are achieving just as well they will not be seen as desirable.

mathsmum314 learn a musical instrument etc all at no financial cost.

Unless they're going to lear the air guitar, I'm pretty sure there will be a financial cost involved. You also assume that a supportive parent has musical aptitude.

Mum I suspect ironically that in Bucks its the secondary moderns that are house price schools. Pass the 11+ in Bucks and you're guaranteed a grammar but the top secondary moderns are very over-subscribed.

MathsMum Yeyy, always nice to find areas of agreement on these threads. You'd probably like my ideas for 14+ grammars as well - they appeared on one of the 2 million grammar school threads there have been!!

Is this thread for real? You can't even get a 2 bed flat for £300,000 to get into a good comprehensive where I live in Redland/Cotham Bristol.

HPFA Bucks and you're guaranteed a grammar but the top secondary moderns are very over-subscribed.

Actually you're not guaranteed a grammar. The problem in Bucks is that there are a lot of educational tourists who sit the exam. This pushes the pass mark up and means the selection process is not just selecting from local children. It's not enought to be in the top 25% of the localised area. You need to be in the top 25% of the localised area + many miles beyond.

Mum funnily enough I was chatting a couple of nights ago to someone who is very knowledgeable about Bucks schools and I asked if would be legal to set the pass mark at 25% of the Bucks pupils sitting the test rather than of everyone sitting. Apparently it would be legal but Bucks CC don't want to do this as they prefer pinching high-achieving kids from outside their borders

MumTryingHerBest
Try trawling the charity shops and you will find a plethora of musical instruments for less than a tenner. As for tutoring, I have sought out neighbors, friends, families, charities and strangers that can teach my DC new skills at no cost. Supportive parents find a way, you dont need to have a skill in that specific area. e.g. a lonely elderly lady we met through volunteering at an old peoples home was happy for company, as DC used her piano.

mathsmum314

I live in a selective area where all the selective schools offer music places. You would be lucky to find any musical instrument in a local charity shop (unless damaged and needing work).

As for finding a friend, family member or lonely elderly lady - I think you would need to be very, very lucy to find such a person who can get your DC to concert performance level by the age of 9/10 in order for them to score high enough in the audition to get a music place. However, if that's how your DC got a music place at a selective school, I'm quite impressed.

MumTryingHerBest, not been through a music selection process was just talking about learning an instrument. Have bought a flute off ebay for less than a tenner and despite no skill myself was able to teach DS courtesy of youtube and library.

ebay is brilliant. Not for music lessons but have traded skills on websites like swapaskill to get one on one tution in various area in exchange for my time in another. If high level music lessons were relevant then its possible as well.

mathsmum314 I don't know swapaskill. Thanks for the heads up, will check it out :-)

This is meant as a short reply to the queries on American secondary education. Busing to end racial segregation was extremely unpopular in the States, and has been mostly discontinued. State schools here generally reflect the local neighborhood as to racial and social class. Some suburban and urban schools are extremely homogenous. We do offer Advanced Placement classes here; one can receive college credit after passing a terminal exam. Some schools offer courses in cooperation with a local college, but this is rare. Schools in a given district are managed by an appointed superintendent and generally elected school committee. Most schools here are entirely comprehensive, with students streamed or settled by subject. There are magnet schools specializing in the arts or gifted students, but these are only in larger districts. Junior highs incorporate grades 6-8, 7-8, or 7-9; they are full of bullying. I attended a private girls' school from 12-18, which was rather Anglomanic in its aims and attitudes, so have little personal experience.

The cost of a tutor for a grammar school is significantly less than the differential in house prices in the catchment area around a top comprehensive.

As 2striped said I think the house price issue is regional and perhaps more prevalent in London than other areas?

ChickenSalad Tue 04-Oct-16 05:56:08 The cost of a tutor for a grammar school is significantly less than the differential in house prices in the catchment area around a top comprehensive.

I know one family who bought a property, renovated it and sold it for a profit. The DC got a school place from the renovated property address and the house was sold soon after. I'm guessing they came away with a profit.

There is an increasing number of people who rent a property to get their first DC into the school and then siblings follow. I'm not sure there is much in it when comparing the tution costs for two or more children over two or three years and 6-12 month rental payments.

the house price issue is regional and perhaps more prevalent in London than other areas?

Its an issue in a lot of places, not just London.

It's an issue in the home counties, London, and the southeast. Given how desnly populated this area is, you are talking about more than 40% of the English population. Other big cities in England, Wales, and Scotland may have issues too. I don't know. But house price selection is hardly a niche issue.

EllyMayClampett - But house price selection is hardly a niche issue.

Nor is it restricted to comp. only areas. If it was, house prices near the Outstanding comps. in Devon would be much higher than they are.

Look - why is selection by parental income such a massive issue for the pro-grammar brigade when it comes to comprehensives, but not when it comes to grammar, where it is VASTLY more of a problem!

Poor children are hugely under represented at grammars and dealing with the problem is proving intractable.

Comprehensives on the other hand are starting to get around the challenges of unfair access by introducing lotteries and fair banding. They aren't the whole answer to the problem but can make a very significant difference.

However, I think this issue of access for poor and low achieving children to any 'good school' is fundamentally difficult, given that intake is part of what parents feel makes a school desirable or otherwise.

Is it vastly more of a problem mini? How so?

Also, how fair is fair banding. It seems to me that "comps" who have a portion of academic selection based on fair banding may be siphoning off more than their fair share of academically able children for the area. I am specifically thinking about North London/Hertforshire "comps" that get alluded to from time to time.