Selection get out clause

[mrz]

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/grammar-get-out-clause-confirmed-selection-permissable-within-trusts/?utmcontent=buffer81f1c&utmmmedium=social&utmsource=twitter.com&utmmcampaign=buffer

mathsmum314 out of interest, have you ever actually set foot in a Grammr school, sat in any lessons in a Grammar school, spoken to the teachers at a Grammar school about how they will tailor their lessons to your DCs needs?

This is an utterly depressing thread. It does make me feel better about paying through the nose for private though.

Just for the record, my comp does further maths GCSE with top set alongside maths, at A-level we offer core maths, A-level, and further maths. We also offer STEP preparation. In addition we enter students for the Olympiads and have at least one KS3 student who is assigned a university undergraduate for Olympiad preparation and mentoring (arranged through the UKMT).

We are lucky in my department to have a full set of maths-qualified teachers. Other schools can't offer what we do because their maths department is, for example, a constant turnover of NQTs hired in from Ireland, or a stream of supply teachers. That's not a failing of the comprehensive system, but a complete failing on the part of the government to value teachers.

It does make me feel better about paying through the nose for private though.

Specifically for mathematics I do not know of any school (private or state) in the country that does particularly more than noblegiraffe describes. And yet - the UK has a number of world leading maths departments, so we aren't exactly failing in mathematics.

Link to one of the Kent grammars' results pages

www.cgsb.co.uk/about/results/

Note that 12 boys got A in Maths out of 101. I guess the school was so busy trying to teach beyond the A syllabus they forgot to make sure that all the boys would actually get one.

Incidentally at DD's all - girls comp 10% of cohort gets A* in Maths, Comps really can't stretch bright children eh?

user, I don't have access to noble's school.

EllyMayClampett I imagine considerably fewer children have access to your DCs school so not sure what your point is.

Perhaps I have misunderstood user147... then MumTryingHerBest. What did you think she meant by her post at Thu 06-Oct-16 11:26:07 ?

But noble's school illustrates that meeting the needs of high achievers does not require a grammar rather than a comprehensive. Her team meets the needs of strong mathematicians as much or more than maths teachers in grammar schools do.

Yet maths in her school is indeed not representative of schools everywhere. This is not because of comp v grammar but for other reasons. The biggest problems in education are funding, rapidly changing government policies and targets, and the huge social divide.

This is so classic, be chilled and relaxed, we are still the best. Then when being challenged that its not the case, then all faults go to funding, government, policy

Someone asked me earlier on this post what kind of support I should give to my child. Had I know then I am not on here. The fact is most of the children who is doing well is being taught extra at home, and its better doing it in hiding as the general society acceptance is natural bright is the driver of any success. Other than that you are "pushing" your child and as you all said earlier here, you are making the teacher's life harder(simply by asking them more!)

Nobody here is saying that bright children shouldn't be encouraged to work hard, explore deep concepts and investigate interesting topics outside school. We are saying that pre-teaching the school curriculum at home is not the best way to extend children; indeed it can be extremely harmful.

Those of us saying this are parents as well as educators. We do have experience of very bright children. Putting us all down as "socialists", "chilled", "having low expectations" would be erroneous.

And people saying that A stars are trivial for bright students so grammars are needed to do more for them are simply not looking at the facts. A very small percentage of pupils get straight A stars at both GCSE and A level. The GCSEs are already being made harder, so that the percentage of pupils getting straight 9s will be smaller again. If you have a DC who's going to get straight 9s and A stars at A level, great. (Although you might like to wait until they actually do so, rather than counting your chickens before they hatch.) But such pupils are in the minority in a grammar school or a comprehensive and won't get special teaching targeted just at them in either school.

Results from Henry Floyd GS

www.sirhenryfloyd.bucks.sch.uk/curriculum/examinations/

Doesn't support at all the thesis that every student at a grammar finds getting an A* easy.

I do not see why grammar schools , should only been seen as acceptable for 'genius' pupils. I have been looking at the Northern Ireland Grammar schools and it seems to me they have got the system right!

you do not have to be 'genius' to get in , nor not achieving '5A*' GCSEs does not deem you a failure. However, perhaps more relevantly the requirements for admittance to the 6th form in Northern Ireland's grammar schools are achievable for most hardworking pupils.

This is important because it means even if you fail the 11+ there is a real opportunity to get there if you want to !

A Grammar school education is not 'cut' off from any student in Northern Ireland . This is different from the 'highly' selective grammar sixth forms usually found in England.

This means that as some posters remind me a grammar school education in England is also unavailable at 16 as well 11 for failing the 11+. This is due to the stringent academic requirements for entry to sixth form at English grammar schools.

This having been brought on by 'Supply and demand Economics' of the limited supply of grammar schools.

sandyholme Northern Ireland Grammar schools and it seems to me they have got the system right!

www.education.gg/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=97491&p=0

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/education/two-catholic-grammar-schools-become-latest-to-reject-academic-selection-in-northern-ireland-30351518.html

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35350729

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/education/should-northern-ireland-end-selection-at-age-of-11-and-make-it-14-instead-28501540.html

Our Lady's Grammar in Newry and St Mary's Grammar in Magherafelt have no intention of becoming non selective Catholic schools . They are among the best grammars in Northern Ireland. The 'Protestant' or non religious grammar schools are showing no interest in becoming non selective.

However, there is always someone who wants to ruin something that is good...

cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/discrimination/gibson1.htm

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37320670

www.ft.com/content/1f4832ee-7327-11e5-bdb1-e6e4767162cc

www.qub.ac.uk/research-centres/CentreforChildrensRights/filestore/Filetoupload,485594,en.pdf