Selection get out clause

[mrz]

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/grammar-get-out-clause-confirmed-selection-permissable-within-trusts/?utmcontent=buffer81f1c&utmmmedium=social&utmsource=twitter.com&utmmcampaign=buffer

I should point out that my conclusions will be 20 years out of date now! We've copied the idea that education should be until 18, did start to broaden sixth form education with A/S levels and later AS and A2s, but now I think it's gone backwards again?

Social and racial segregation is generally more entrenched than in the UK - bussing for any reason other than getting child to nearest school seems to have died out in areas I'm familiar with. I do wonder if the move to take power from LAs was some sort of reaction to the US, where lots of people think the school board should manage everything. The superintendent of the school board is elected, which is a bloody stupid idea!

Being able to take college-level classes in most schools is a good thing - it stops the bright kids mucking about if they can get half a degree by the time they complete high school. There seem to be a few moves here to get univeristy-level courses to kids who are ready for them but without letting them just go to uni (15-16yos at uni is a bad idea!)

How to raise aspirations in dead towns where most kids are only interested in farming/the local industry or are resigned to being a second generation of unemployed, is a problem no-one seems to have mastered in any country since robots got invented. Along with 'how to create jobs'.

I read somewhere that the original plan in 1945 was for selection to take place at 14 but it was stopped by the Church because it would have meant extending their elementary schools which they couldn't afford to do. Combined with Gold Standard vocational education a la Switzerland www.ncee.org/swiss-vet/ maybe that could have worked and we wouldn't be discussing this now.

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/house-prices-near-top-west-11852314

I think this is an example of what 2Striped means in terms of not being able to afford to live in top catchments.

I'd also like to add that currently staff at some secondaries can send their children to that school too - even if they don't live in catchment. It will never be an even playing field.

Middleoftheroad I think the same can be said for the houses in Marlow, Bucks. Interestingly there is a Grammar school in Marlow.

The inflated house prices is driven by population density, oversubscribed schools and a shortage of housing stock. It is not restricted to high performing Comps. as 2Striped is trying to suggest.

Birmingham has 8 grammar schools, from what I can tell. So what that Daily Mail article appears to be saying that Birmingham is quite cheap for housing and there are a bunch of poorly performing schools (which you'd expect as the high performers go to grammars).

Can we all agree that not every good comprehensive is down to house prices? Many of them are just good schools!! DD goes to one (girls school but boys school also very good) in average English town - take national average FSM. They aren't even oversubscribed so house prices have nothing to do with it. And the definition of "top" comps used in the national press is always 5+GCSE - it takes no account of intake and progress made.

Oddly enough the top secondary moderns are heavily over-subscribed and in wealthy areas. On other threads I've seen these schools frequently mentioned as "proof" that all secondary moderns are great, their successes are never attributed to them being "house price schools."

Can we all agree that not every good comprehensive is down to house prices? Many of them are just good schools!!

Yes, but it cuts both ways. If economics isn't the overriding factor for good comps, it can't be the overriding factor for successful grammars either.

I'm not sure many parents hire tutors to get their child into a good comprehensive but many employ tutors in the hope of securing a grammar school place ...is that economic?

2StripedSocks Mon 03-Oct-16 18:23:45 ... kids are shut out of the best comps due to house prices.

You keep making this claim. You also keep claiming that to get into a good comp. you have to be able to buy a house for £300K. Where exactly are you getting the data to support these claims?

2StripedSocks Mon 03-Oct-16 20:24:34 Is that not the case then?

I'm not the one making the claims, you are. Perhaps you can back them up with some facts/figures/data?

Except that we all know in reality if people have a "choice" of grammars and other schools they will do everything they can to get their child into a grammar.

Because they are the old binary grammars and there is so few of them.

HPFA - Ime setting by subject just doesn't always happen and when it does just doesn't work. A few examples from my DS school: Only enough children doing Computer Science and Business Studies at GCSE to have one class doing them, so A* students learning at exactly the same level as grade F/G students. When a cover teacher is needed the top set is go to, as they can afford to lose a few lessons. When a child is parked its in the top sets class. Top set in Maths GCSE has just spent a week practicing how to add and subtract numbers with negative numbers and decimal points in them. Top set in MFL has 35 in it (as they don't need much attention, and the bottom has 6 (as they need lots of attention). Additional maths is canceled because so few in class. Latin canceled because they need to reallocate resources to the more needy pupils. Top set chemistry DS is used as a teaching assistant because lots of children need one to one teaching and he already knows what an element is. I could go on and on. No setting in Geography, History, DT, Art, Music etc as teachers 'differentiate' and more disruptive students benefits from working beside better behaved pupils.

2StripedSocks the article that Middleoftheroad linked to states: Data from the Land Registry analysed by the Mail show the average house price near nonselective state schools, which were in the top fifth for GCSE results nationally, is £212,007. That's a fair bit lower than the £300K.

... children who have the most choice are those who are academically able, have very supportive families...

I agree and this should be available everywhere so supportive parents in deprived areas can also get into a good school.

You have my complete sympathy mathmum. My local friends describe our comp being exactly like this. Where I live your options are: go to a comp just like yours; attend weekly church services and tithe; pay for private.

We are making BIG sacrifices to go private, but I still feel cross because most people don't have that option even with big sacrifices.

It really isn't good enough.

mathsmum314 Mon 03-Oct-16 20:39:50I ... supportive parents in deprived areas can also get into a good school.

And the DCs in deprived areas who don't have supportive parents?

HPFA

Quite a good idea to have three times as many years 7-9 in one school, certainly worth thinking about.

2stripedsocks may have individual figures wrong, but a cursory google shows that house prices and high performing schools are certainly correlated.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/house-prices/11482241/Mapped-Where-Englands-best-schools-are-pushing-up-house-prices.html

And the LSE posits it's not just correlation but causation.

blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/school-house-prices-gibbons/

I really don't get the logic behind grammars being the answer to not enough good school places. Because relatively few kids will get into them and the rest will go to the schools that apparently aren't good enough. The Green Paper is saying that there will be all sorts of things done to make the rest of the schools better so why not forget grammars and do those things to our existing comps so they are good enough?
2striped There was a whole thread where people were coming up with great comps that weren't house price schools. I would research some more but I rather have the feeling that no number would be high enough.

EllyMayClampett Mon 03-Oct-16 20:50:34 2stripedsocks may have individual figures wrong, but a cursory google shows that house prices and high performing schools

I think the key words are "high performing schools".

Kent and Bucks are selective areas. Do house prices in these areas support the claim that Grammar schools do not affect house prices?