People who are in favour of grammar schools....

[BertrandRussell]

....what is your proposal for the majority who are not selected?

[Ta1kinpeece]

sandyholme
Incidentally i don't want grammar schools for purely selfish reasons, however if i did why is it a crime for looking out for your children's best interests!
If you read the research linked above, Grammars do not serve the best interests of any child.
And they waste scarce resources.

[BoffinMum]

Sadly if I were to cut and paste my post into the evidence I would out myself

[BoffinMum]

The other tragic thing about the grammar system is how many children passed, but were unable to find a place as there weren't enough to go round. It was a form of double selection - pass the exam to be given the right to apply for a place, and try not to look too working class so you actually can go.

This was compounded for girls as a problem, as there were more grammar school places for boys than girls, and they set the bar higher for girls as well, requiring a higher IQ and pass mark. And believe it or not, we still have lots of children passing the 11+ and still not being offered places, leading to selection by house price, etc. I can't think of anything more unfair, quite honestly.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8917817/15000-pupils-pass-the-11-plus-but-fail-to-get-a-grammar-school-place.html

[HPFA]

why is it a crime for looking out for your children's best interests!

It isn't. Which is why those of us who know a secondary modern isn't in the best interests of our children are fighting to keep our comprehensives. It feels like grammar supporters are often not respecting that. Although as I've said before Sandy I do think you argue your case with honesty- in real life I think we'd get along actually!!

[Ta1kinpeece]

HPFA
see I come at it from a very different angle.
I went to private gels selective all the way through
I then met lots of friends from selective schools at uni
selective school gave us an utterly dire preparation for the real world.

My kids, having been at comps, understand far more about the differences between people and how society works than I ever did when far older than them.
Segregated schools lead to bad decision making (just look at our politicians for proof)

I want my kids to make good decisions
so I made sure I supported them to the hilt, while making sure they had a broad outlook.

[HPFA]

I do think comps are better for society but I also know that my individual DD is much better off in a comp than a secondary modern. And I don't know how much that influences my thinking. I'd like to think it doesn't but I can't be absolutely certain.

[noblegiraffe]

The massive amount of time, money and effort spent on the 11+ industry is just depressing. A friend in Kent reports adverts for tutors wherever you look, sides of buses, billboards. I would be totally pissed off if I lived there and felt obliged to sign up to the bullshit. All that pressure and anxiety too.

[Ta1kinpeece]

I have adblockers on but the right hand side of MN is full of ads for Tutors .....
DH has been to private schools that boast about "100% 11+ pass"
think how much money would be released back into the system if it were not being spent on that version of "bling"

let alone the economies of scale of one SLT in each town rather than two

[portico]

TalkInPeace said " If you read the research linked above, Grammars do not serve the best interests of any child. And they waste scarce resources."

Research and stats can be skewed any which way to suit any particular viewpoint. Hoŵever, I say to you that grammars do serve the interests of at least 163 schools @ 1000 pupils per school. They stretch the able even further.

[Peregrina]

those who are against grammar schools either failed the 11+ themselves

I didn't, and nor did my brother, but our respective girls and boys grammars were mediocre, and I have no desire to see schools like them return. Long on silly rules, especially my school, and short on academic standards.

[Ta1kinpeece]

portico
Research and stats can be skewed any which way to suit any particular viewpoint. Hoŵever, I say to you that grammars do serve the interests of at least 163 schools @ 1000 pupils per school. They stretch the able even further.
do link please

2striped
city versus small town is ferk all to do with grammars

[Ta1kinpeece]

Are we including the comps that segregate themselves away from the maj of the population who can't afford a £300 k house?
name that comp
if you can I'll use my political connections to kick off, but I need the name to act ....

[Ta1kinpeece]

2striped
you is ass bout face
you name the anecdotal £300k comp
I hassle the wonks
not t'other way round

[HPFA]

The reality in Kent:

kenteducationnetwork.org/2016/09/cheating-1000-appeals-advisors-and-lying-prep-schools-the-reality-of-eleven-plus-kent/

[Ta1kinpeece]

2striped
scarily, dealing with politicians day in, day out is an utter drag
one of the few things that helps me cope is using my contacts to drum into their thick heads the concept of "evidence based decision making"
as per HPFAs link above etc

[BoffinMum]

I am in schools all the time and analyse policy and I can't think of any comprehensive schools that completely echshew social inclusion. They would be seriously investigated for much less.

[Middleoftheroad]

We're priced out of our comps, but our close grammar gives us a chance at not going to the alternatve failing school 2 bus rides away.