People who are in favour of grammar schools....

[BertrandRussell]

....what is your proposal for the majority who are not selected?

[Middleoftheroad]

We're priced out of our comps, but our close grammar gives us a chance at not going to the alternatve failing school 2 bus rides away.

[BoffinMum]

I am in schools all the time and analyse policy and I can't think of any comprehensive schools that completely echshew social inclusion. They would be seriously investigated for much less.

[Ta1kinpeece]

2striped
scarily, dealing with politicians day in, day out is an utter drag
one of the few things that helps me cope is using my contacts to drum into their thick heads the concept of "evidence based decision making"
as per HPFAs link above etc

[HPFA]

The reality in Kent:

kenteducationnetwork.org/2016/09/cheating-1000-appeals-advisors-and-lying-prep-schools-the-reality-of-eleven-plus-kent/

[Ta1kinpeece]

2striped
you is ass bout face
you name the anecdotal £300k comp
I hassle the wonks
not t'other way round

[Ta1kinpeece]

Are we including the comps that segregate themselves away from the maj of the population who can't afford a £300 k house?
name that comp
if you can I'll use my political connections to kick off, but I need the name to act ....

[Ta1kinpeece]

portico
Research and stats can be skewed any which way to suit any particular viewpoint. Hoŵever, I say to you that grammars do serve the interests of at least 163 schools @ 1000 pupils per school. They stretch the able even further.
do link please

2striped
city versus small town is ferk all to do with grammars

[Peregrina]

those who are against grammar schools either failed the 11+ themselves

I didn't, and nor did my brother, but our respective girls and boys grammars were mediocre, and I have no desire to see schools like them return. Long on silly rules, especially my school, and short on academic standards.

[portico]

TalkInPeace said " If you read the research linked above, Grammars do not serve the best interests of any child. And they waste scarce resources."

Research and stats can be skewed any which way to suit any particular viewpoint. Hoŵever, I say to you that grammars do serve the interests of at least 163 schools @ 1000 pupils per school. They stretch the able even further.

[Ta1kinpeece]

I have adblockers on but the right hand side of MN is full of ads for Tutors .....
DH has been to private schools that boast about "100% 11+ pass"
think how much money would be released back into the system if it were not being spent on that version of "bling"

let alone the economies of scale of one SLT in each town rather than two

[noblegiraffe]

The massive amount of time, money and effort spent on the 11+ industry is just depressing. A friend in Kent reports adverts for tutors wherever you look, sides of buses, billboards. I would be totally pissed off if I lived there and felt obliged to sign up to the bullshit. All that pressure and anxiety too.

[HPFA]

I do think comps are better for society but I also know that my individual DD is much better off in a comp than a secondary modern. And I don't know how much that influences my thinking. I'd like to think it doesn't but I can't be absolutely certain.

[Ta1kinpeece]

HPFA
see I come at it from a very different angle.
I went to private gels selective all the way through
I then met lots of friends from selective schools at uni
selective school gave us an utterly dire preparation for the real world.

My kids, having been at comps, understand far more about the differences between people and how society works than I ever did when far older than them.
Segregated schools lead to bad decision making (just look at our politicians for proof)

I want my kids to make good decisions
so I made sure I supported them to the hilt, while making sure they had a broad outlook.

[HPFA]

why is it a crime for looking out for your children's best interests!

It isn't. Which is why those of us who know a secondary modern isn't in the best interests of our children are fighting to keep our comprehensives. It feels like grammar supporters are often not respecting that. Although as I've said before Sandy I do think you argue your case with honesty- in real life I think we'd get along actually!!

[BoffinMum]

The other tragic thing about the grammar system is how many children passed, but were unable to find a place as there weren't enough to go round. It was a form of double selection - pass the exam to be given the right to apply for a place, and try not to look too working class so you actually can go.

This was compounded for girls as a problem, as there were more grammar school places for boys than girls, and they set the bar higher for girls as well, requiring a higher IQ and pass mark. And believe it or not, we still have lots of children passing the 11+ and still not being offered places, leading to selection by house price, etc. I can't think of anything more unfair, quite honestly.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8917817/15000-pupils-pass-the-11-plus-but-fail-to-get-a-grammar-school-place.html

[BoffinMum]

Sadly if I were to cut and paste my post into the evidence I would out myself

[Ta1kinpeece]

sandyholme
Incidentally i don't want grammar schools for purely selfish reasons, however if i did why is it a crime for looking out for your children's best interests!
If you read the research linked above, Grammars do not serve the best interests of any child.
And they waste scarce resources.

[Crocodillian]

I come from a grammar school town; there were 2 grammar schools (single sex) and a handfull of failing comps. It was very much pass your 11 plus or dont even bother with education anymore. So much emphasis had been put on these amazing grammar schools that it was generally accepted within the community that bright kids went to the grammar, wasters didnt. Nothing in between and if you really couldnt get your kid into the grammar there was a private school.
Looking back it was odd but until I went to uni I didnt realise that it was okay not to go to a grammar or private school. I thought I was a complete failure. I still have a friend who refers to my not going to grammar all the time. She's mildly impressed by my career (which isnt a stealth boast, long hours/low pay) but she genuinely says "And to think you didn't go to grammar school"
I sailed through the English and failed the maths in 11 plus and still remember where I was when I was told. My parents were devastated. All of my friends went to the grammar. My comp was on David Blunketts list of schools to be shut down as it was failing. It only offered foundation paper maths and science gcses and had no 6th form. After one term the school suggested that I be transferred to grammar at 13.
When I finally went to the grammar school it was awful, me and another girl had been transferred at the same time. We were both new and shy and some of the teachers were openly disparaging about our old school and the lack of standards, which isn't something a child knows how to respond to or understand. I just felt embarassed and ashamed. Looking back one particular teacher was a complete snob and really unprofessional. I didn't stay but the other girl did.
I'm certain that there are much better situations and that not every town with grammars is like mine was, but in my town back then it really created this system of secondary school education at the grammars and well we better open something to keep all the riff raff off the streets until 3.15 for the rest. Our teachers said that we couldnt afford books because the budget was 50p per student per year for everything. We had no funding, no respect, no expectations. It was just a building to scoop up 11 plus rejects.