People who are in favour of grammar schools....

[BertrandRussell]

....what is your proposal for the majority who are not selected?

So what are they going to be working incredibly hard all the time at?

A very good comment posted on Headteacher Guru:

I am the headteacher of a secondary modern school and have been asked by precisely no-one about my views from a “sectoral” perspective about the Green Paper proposals. Wonder why nobody is keen to find out what we think about the debate. Tom S gets it dead right, but there’s much more to be said about the potential volatility and permanent risk of failure that stalks the other side of the selective divide. Even if we are “good”, which we currently are, we know that there are opportunities that are denied to our pupils because they were sifted at 11.Our daily mission is to redress the balance, but how much more we could do with a balanced intake.

I've just realized that this is my thread. Nobody has answered my original question yet- we were talking about the needs and wants of the higher ability kids within about 3 posts.

2stripedsocks- I didn't have to twist your words. You couldn't have been clearer.

HPFA- the HeadteacherGuru quotation ties in nicely with the direction these threads always go. The needs and wants of the higher ability kids always take priority.

I heard today, not sure if it's true, that the Green Paper doesn't mention SEN at all.

So you don't even know what they doing in this fabulous school you're talking about? Are you kidding me??????

Bertrand I think this sums it up:

By definition, grammar schools do not work for everyone. The Green Paper title is one of the most stupid educational claims ever made. The whole point of grammar schools is that they provide for the few students who can get in; there is nothing about the grammar school system in any area that seeks to address the needs of ‘everyone’; it’s not their brief. Selection is about creating an elite learning environment for the privileged few and you are either happy with that idea or you’re not; but that’s what it is. There is no evidence that supports the claim that selection improves outcomes across the system as a whole. It doesn’t. Extending selection won’t either . It can’t.

The whole article is here

headguruteacher.com/2016/09/17/grammar-schools-schools-that-dont-work-for-everyone/

I would however happily send my DC to a comp that satisfied all my criteria.

So why argue in favour of grammars when grammars are no guarantee of meeting your criteria?

Of course the Green Paper "Schools that work for everyone" doesn't mention special educational needs at all, because most kids with SEN don't get into grammar schools.

It should be renamed "Schools that work for 20%, tops, don't care about the rest, maybe the private sector can sort them out?"

Thank you, noble.

Our grammar has several on the SEN register,my DC included.

and how does that contradict what I said? I didn't say grammars have no sen students, I said most SEN students don't get into grammars.

"Rubbish,it's about school expectations and standards,not the kids not in it."

Sorry - but that's utter nonsense.

Children in grammar schools overwhelmingly come from m/c families who are massively education focused. There are vastly fewer children with SEN, and vastly fewer severely disadvantaged children - the ones experiencing violence, drug abuse, homelessness, etc. There are - first and foremost - NO children from families who simply don't value education, and pass those beliefs on to their children.

I have so much more respect for the couple of people who are actually prepared to come out and say they don't want their kids mixing with the hoi polloi.

I said i don't want my children being any where near any school that lets their kids out at 2.30PM and terrorize the neighbourhood forcing shops and pubs to pull their shutters down to avoid the 'plauge' of St Trinians coming in to town. This would be funny if the repercussions of such behaviour had not led to the deaths of Phillip Lawence and Ann Maquire.

So i will send my children to schools that are as far culturally and socially aware from these schools as possible!

The schools they go to are not 'perfect' but they are paradises of calm and tranquility compared to most 'state' schools.

Define Hoi Polloi !

Because certain posters seem to define 'Rich' or advantaged is having an income over £15,600 PA.

Mum- I've reported those last two posts- I don't think we ought to name poster's children's schools.

Culturally and socially far away as possible.

Considering the institutional 'metropolitan' left wing bias of this site, i think that means in the outside , there is a sizeable number of grammar school supporters .

In YouGov's (national) poll six days ago the numbers were not dissimilar to the MN poll.

Only 34% were in favour of new grammars. 25% wanted to scrap existing grammars. 20% wanted to retain the status quo i.e. no new grammars. The remaining 21% did not have an opinion.

I would be surprised if there is majority support for grammars once people start thinking about the implications of their own children not passing the test.

No problem BR. Sorry 2StripedSocks I wasn't trying to out you/your DC but you really can't claim there are lots of SEN DCs in Grammar schools, the Stats just don't support this claim.