New. At boarding prep school

[Willsoonbesummer]

My 8 year old has just started full boarding at prep school.The feed back has been so negative so far from the school.He is not organised enough etc.Now we feel we have made a mistake and not sure what to do.Any advise from mums who have been through this type of school would be very much appreaciated.

NewLife4Me Fair enough, I have to admit I don't know anything about Shropshire.

I'm not in Shropshire, we are Wigan.
The next town is Bolton a bit more diverse, the other towns with more diversity further up are places like Rochdale, Blackburn maybe?
I don't know about the London Schools, they sound very diverse and quite full oversubscribed iirc.
There are so many different types of schools that sometimes something can seem so far removed from our own experience it's hard to comprehend.
I know I always say this but as I am interested in education I like to hear about Kent schools as I can never get my head round some stories I read on here.
I am also fascinated by Trafford area as not too far from us but a whole different ball game with some dc sitting up to 5 tests for secondary schools.

NewLife4Me Is there a particular reason you are interested in Grammar areas in particular?

No, not really just that I know nothing about them at all except what I hear on here.
I can sympathise with lots of stories I hear and comment from the view point of believing they should exist when there is debate.
I know many complain about it being an unfair system.
I can also remember reading a Tiffin thread when I fist joined about 4 years ago and thought I'd entered a parallel universe

NewLife4Me state Grammar Schools / academically sellective schools are pretty much free private schools. For the most part the children who attend them would be the same children attending private schools if the Grammars didn't exist.

There is no justification for having them. If you live in a Grammar/selective area it's a case of sit the exam and see what you can get or move out of the area (yes I do know people who have moved out of Grammar/selective areas to avoid the stress of it all.

Well yes, I think the situation in London is a parallel universe. It's either a postcode lottery with people paying up more than the cost of school fees in stamp duty to move into the catchment of decent schools. Or, if you happen to live in one of the few grammar school catchments, you embark on the whole tutoring shenanigan and take your chances there - somewhere like Tiffin maybe a 1 in 20 chance of a place. Or there are the joys of the independent sector where ALL secondary schools are selective, - it doesn't matter how much money you have to throw at your child's education - and where there is little or no space for the child with average academics. It is perfectly normal for DC to sit 4/5 different exams at different schools in the hope that something will come up!

NewLife - please correct me if I'm wrong, but is your dd not a teenager who recently started on a scholarship at a specialist music boarding school? If so, I think you'll agree that this is a totally different situation to an 8- year-old being sent to board because it's "The Only Way is Eton" ( or the like).

4what

it's sort of like that, but not a scholarship. It's part of a gov scheme for musicians and dancers. (MADS) fees are paid dependant on income.
There are some parents though, at times myself too who see the benefit in it having to be this particular school because of the "jobs for the boys" at the end of it.
However, even though I can see this it wan't one of our main reasons for letting her go, but I'd be a liar if I said we hadn't considered this.
My dh feels as though he has missed out on certain work because he didn't attend one of these schools, but just as happy he got there just on merit.

mum

I like the idea of grammars, even though we don't have any and none of mine would have passed 11+.
I don't like that it is unfair for some but I do believe in the wide variety of schools we have available and of course the option to H.ed as well.
Without this choice it would be boring and we'd all be the same.
There is unfairness in all types of schools, I don't mind faith schools as we have so many here it's hard to find a community. I can see why they are not favoured by others though.

Triplespin "genuinely interested to hear in what aspects your son's prep is better than the London day schools such as Westmjnster Under and Colet Court?"

Interesting that you picked the two most academic Prep schools in London / the country! If you're talking pure academics / ability to hothouse a child into getting good exam results then no, I doubt (m)any boarding Preps could compete. But the Westminster / St Pauls level of academic rigour isn't even relevant to almost every child, given they only take from the top 1% (roughly). Hardly a fair comparison when the choice for most parents would be between [insert name of genuinely un selective London school I have yet to find, perhaps aside from OFSTED inadequate Hill House] / more likely the local state and a boarding Prep.

Also, I wonder why you rate elite academics so highly? 90whatever % of DC could not cope in the Westminster / St P environment academically. It does not fit their needs. Many can get on fine in boarding Preps with very good teaching that can prepare DC for both the best schools in the country and prepare the less able for some still very good schools.

Besides, there is so much more to becoming a rounded human being than getting A*..... DC at boarding Preps are generally under less pressure academically and have many acres of space to run around in at break building dens, sport every day (often including horse riding / polo / golf, sailing etc) more other extra curriculars (a Prep I know of has 70 per week to choose from!) trips out to places of interest / fun every weekend for the full boarders, house parties / cinema nights with friends every Saturday, learning to live alongside peers (anything from full boarding to one night a month for 'babysitting' if Flexi is offered). Some Preps even allow DC to bring their own horse or pet to the school. Many offer a whole term abroad in Year 7 (though to be fair, maybe W / St P offer similar?). Also, because most have Saturday school and often don't finish after school activities until 7pm the academics are more spread out and the days (IMHO) are more relaxed and fun.

To me, London day schools (I mean, the majority of pushy Preps aside from W/St P) remind me a lot more of 6th form 'crammers' where everything is about most information in shortest amount of time and teaching to the test, with lip service paid to other non examination related things. Everything is about the frenzy to get a Nursery place at 'the right' Prep, or agonising over the 4+, then tutoring for the 7+ at probably 4/5 different schools. Then a couple of years off before realising there are very few Senior places (esp for boys)... So tutoring again for 11+ or 13+ (And frankly, most of the Seniors aside from the very top flight are not that great either compared to those out of London.) To me, the London system is all about how hard DC can be pushed over academic hurdles and I find it harsh (even tutoring 6/5/4 year olds) to have that much pressure at such a young age.

Well yes, I think the situation in London is a parallel universe. It's either a postcode lottery with people paying up more than the cost of school fees in stamp duty to move into the catchment of decent schools.

I don't agree at all. I live in a pretty downmarket area, my kids' comp is distinctly non-leafy and they're being excellently educated. Drama and music and Latin and all. And though they're not on FSM plenty of their mates are.

motherinferior perhaps because the government invested so much money into improving London States.... There are many excellent London States, but they a re largely an irrelevance to people looking at hot house London Preps. (Plus there are still some quite shit States too).

No, I was disagreeing with a particular opinion that there are no decent comps in London bar ones with eye-wateringly expensive post codes.

mother inferior - no I didn't mean there are no decent comps in London, just that people will often move to places where they can get into them.

EmbroideryQueen - your description of the London independent system is spot on and it can be a total nightmare, but I still think the most stressful thing for an 8-year-old would be not being able to come home at the end of the day.

And my point was that it is not just a case of pricey housing round desirable schools. Three are rather a lot of normal schools in normal areas (I refer you to the wet hostel at the end of my road and the socioeconomic demographic of my kids' school) doing an excellent job.

I didn't say there is only decent schools are in pricey areas. I said that when people move to get into a school this move obviously costs money as in fees, stamp duty, etc.

Embroidery - I asked about a comparison of boarding with these particular schools due to my familiarity with W/StP - i have not grown up here so boarding system is unfamiliar territory.

I think that motherinferior is making a different point - which is that apart from a very few schools that have maintained some selective criteria (music, languages) and so have very few catchment places or have historic cachet there are many, many London schools doing a good job, where no particular acrobatics are needed to get in. There will always be a contingent who believe if the school's not difficult to get into it can't be worth going to....

I was indeed, lizzy. Thank you.

I would counter Motherinferior and Lizzytee's point with the Tatler Guide To State Schools and with the 200m 'distance from school gates' statistics, BUT I would say that this is predominantly in areas inside say, zone 3, which have at some MC families... But actually that covers a lot of London!

Triplespin ah, I see. I really don't think W & St P are representative of London day schools.... But I suppose the nearest boarding comparables to W & St P would be at senior level Eton, Harrow, Winchester and at Prep age the Berkshire Preps which feed to E&H, such as Horris Hill, Ludgrove, Papplewick, Caldicott etc, most or arguably all of which are easier to get in to than W & St P.

Hi Lizzytee that sounds great but I think it depends where you live. I think the problem is that in the more affluent areas in London people do tend to go private (for secondary at least) and then the gap widens. By gap I mean GCSE and A level results and value added scores. Round here, where super- selective independents and grammars abound, that gap is huge unfortunately. In fact, everybody I know who wanted to continue with state for secondary have either moved (often to an area where house prices are cheaper / out of London) or managed to get into one of about 4 excellent faith schools.

Sure - I think your're right in that it depends where you live - but even then it's a question of perspective- so, ok 24% of pupils in, say, Wandsworth are at independent schools - but 76% aren't. Of course there will be a huge gap in headline academics between selective state and private schools and others - does't mean that the other schools aren't serving their pupils well.

Absolutely - you're right. I don't know what the stats re- private secondary ed. are for Richmond Borough or Ken and Chelsea, but I suspect quite a bit higher than 24 per cent. And like I said earlier in the thread, once you've gone down that route you're in "the bubble" - like us, with 3 kids in 3 different independents according to the 11 plus exams they managed to pass. Ridiculous really!

Also our local secondary (about a mile away) is in the bottom 20 per cent nationally re- performance in all areas. This is irrelevant to us as we didn't even get a place there as its so oversubscribed There is another great option, but you have to live in one of about 4 streets to get in.

Since you ask....

Richmond - about 30%
K&C - about 55%
Camden - about 30%

BUT - I think the first two are the richest boroughs in the country and Camden includes most of Hamppstead and I doubt anyone would argue that K&C is representative. It's also got a population much smaller than the average so numbers that are small in absolute terms look bigger.

If you want the stats - look at table 7b of the local authority and regional tables here

I'm curious though...really only one local secondary a mile away? I am on the edge of inner and outer London and we are in catchment for 5 comprehensives and one faith school. The former range from good to middling to poor, the latter is very good indeed. Not always guaranteed a place on catchment but that is what it usually shakes down to.