Can we have a not-too polarised discussion about Eton, Harrow and Winchester?

[needtothinkaboutseniorschools]

I need to choose a senior school by the end of this year. We're looking at these three after discussion with school. Ds is only 9 so it's difficult to know what he'll be like in 4 years but right now he likes quantum physics, Lego and Dr Who and is very musical. He would be aiming for a music scholarship or exhibition and I trust the advice from the school as they clearly have a lot of experience in recommending senior schools.

I'm amazed we're even thinking about these schools and think all of them look amazing, but I've trawled through other mn threads and seen that some posters have extreme opinions about some of these schools. I'm thinking surely they can't be so different, as they all look great and they take boys from similar prep schools.

So please could I have some informed views on what the schools are like, without it getting too polarised? We will look at all three, but I know that the view you get on an open morning or tour isn't the same as the day-to-day experience.

We are also considering some state schools near to us, as those are good too, but clearly offer a very different experience.

now we feel all at sea as we want ds to be happy and it's not clear whether our choice of school will have an impact on this.

I see no reason why boys who can adapt to full boarding wouldn't be equally happy at either. DS is in his final year at Eton, and told me over Christmas that he has loved being there. It is not so much a 'sink or swim' ethos at the school, but it is true to say that they are thrown in at the deep end a bit. However, there is a lot of support and guidance for those who find it difficult at first. This article gives one boy's insight into life at the school.

Presumably your DS enjoyed visiting both schools, he will have access to a whole range of extra curricular activities at both schools, some amazing teachers and will have to work very hard at both schools too.

I really enjoyed reading that article! Thank you so much MrsBernardBlack! My type of reading

Well OP, many congratulations for securing a conditional offer from Eton. Thank you for updating us. Just so you know, I cannot remember when was the last time a conditional offer holder for Eton had failed to make good the offer after CE. In other words, a conditional offer from Eton is as good as gold - almost guaranteed acceptance - unless something exceptionally weird happened and your DS flunked his CE. But this is not going to happen especially when you also talked about the hope of getting a music scholarship thus giving me an idea the kind of lad you have as verified by Eton.

And what does your son think about the 3 schools he has visited? Has he a preference for any particular one? I know you are aware a quick visit to any school does not tell you everything but believe me, what you see at Eton is just scratching the surface. As a poster indicated above, it takes a very brave person to pass an Eton offer.

And why the other schools that you applied to have to take months and months before they can make up their minds is quite frankly, beyond me. It’s not as if they are the biggest schools on earth and have many applications to deal with or something . . . Rather, it tells me how inefficient they are. Well, if you can’t see the sign at this very early stage . . .

Talking about music scholarship, I cannot see another independent school in the UK that can match Eton’s generosity in this respect as in all other aspects relating to finance.

The young man’s account of Eton life is interesting, MrsBB, but his dad, an author at The Spectator magazine, wrote an even more entertaining article some three years earlier entitled, I’m proud to come out as an Eton parent.

The passion for writing about Eton by the same author is quite obvious as evidenced by yet another article here from 2014.

"And why the other schools that you applied to have to take months and months before they can make up their minds is quite frankly, beyond me."
Winchester spends a long time carefully interviewing every boy who registers this term so hardly months just 1 term of interviewing, most have registered with a particular house and are then interviewed by its HM, the interview takes about 1 1/2 hours sometimes longer and although it does include some tests it is a very relaxed affair, they like a boy to be as close to 11 as possible so some wont be interview until the end of this term. All applicants are informed on the same day, in May I seem to recall. Eton I believe (least it did when my DS was a prep school) interviews in two batches informing 1 group in December and 1 in June/July.
I actually don't see in the grand scheme of the thing that its relevant how long you wait to hear if your been successful after your interview. Lets face it by the time you get a letter from Winchester offering you a place or not you will have most likely have taken your DS to an open day when he was 8/9 yrs old and met at least 1 HM if not three, waited for the interview and then waited for the letter. We for example first looked at Winchester when my DS was in yr 3, met three HM's in yr 4 and he was interviewed in the March of yr 6 and he was then offered a place in the May so in total we actually waited over well 2 years from deciding this feels like the right school for us to being offered a place. Anyway regardless of what school you choose Id forget about waiting weeks months or years to hear if you've been successful, this is frankly a minor detail and completely insignificant, for me the most worrying thing (because this means I'm aging rapidly) is how quickly his time at Winchester went, I clearly remember the new boys lunch, his first day and then the next thing its the Domum dinner when it was all over, I have absolutely no idea where the intervening years went.They say as you get older it feels like time is going quicker.
I know some don't like the way Winchester interviews, which is pretty unique, disliking the personal nature of it, the fact that a sole HM makes the decision about your DS and most importantly can go on his gut feeling about a boy. I understand this but for us and of course many others the very personal, considered and thoughtful nature of the interview selection process was part of not only Winchester attraction but an indication of the sort of school it is.

Good luck OP in your decision.

Winchester is known for being the place for the very cleverest boys.

A friend at Cambridge once told me that of all the public schools he thought that Winchester is probably the only one where the boys don’t leave as total ba***s.

I do think that was overstatement but a more modest principle can be extracted.

Winchester is the most deeply intellectual; it’s the oldest and most historic; it’s smaller and more intimate; and it has a zero bullying policy. It’s the oldest public school (by the Clarendon Act) and the one Eton was modelled on. The town is also one of the most beautiful towns in England. The college is architecturally lovely and has been used in various films (including Les Misérables, The Crown and almost all the Oxford college scenes in the The Riot Club).

Stephen Fry in his book “Moab Is My Washpot” even writes “Winchester has an interest in only the cleverest boys.”

Eton is certainly academically thoroughly decent - but it is a bigger and harsher place, and the boys tend to leave a little more self-conscious and arrogant, with a lot more shine and a lot less depth. It’s also a characterful school certainly. Simply because the school years are twice the size as at Winchester, Eton may however be better for social connections, if that’s what motivates you.

In comparing Wykehamists and Etonians, try comparing their modern exemplars, comparing Rishi Sunak (Oxford 1st in PPE, Stanford masters, tech and finance multi millionaire entrepreneur, second youngest and first Indian Chancellor of the Exchequer, as well as all-round nice guy) with say Boris Johnson (charming but undeniably less intellectually substantial). Or in fictional terms, compare the poetic Charles Ryder (Wykehamist) with his counterpart Sebastian Flyte (Etonian).

Harrow is ok, certainly a nice enough school! But academically it’s not comparable to either Eton or Winchester - a little bit Hufflepuff. But it’s good enough, and better than either of the other two if you’re keen on more sports.

But all the schools are good.

Well, I'm not too keen on Rishi Sunak. He doesn't seem to understand how the music/theatre/arts industry works at all. It is a massive industry that contributes £££ to the national economy, but he does not care for it. Implies culture is not on his radar. That is not a well rounded person. Or a well rounded and informed Chancellor.

I kind of support Rishi if only based on the monumental task he is facing. Imagine having a Boris type or profile as Chancellor, trying to cut all the corners and minimise his sweat while satisfying his inner egotistical needs. Neh.

But apart from that I agree with the general profiles @jxvh attributes to Eton and Winchester, based on experience with people out of those places. After all, Eton has only become "academic" recently, and conveniently and suspiciously around the time Prince Harry left the premises!

@houselikeashed it seems he has just announced a £1.5Bn 'lifeline' for the Arts industry. Thank God. I don't think I could bear to see any more choirs /theatres fold.
Let's see the detail in the proposal as it unfolds, hopefully today.

I think we may be on the wrong thread tho

So many struggling sectors to support but at least there is an acknowledgment of the importance of the Arts’ industry. Much of the UK’s reputation internationally has come from its music artists and actors, directors etc.

If you are comparing the academic credentials of E and W on the basis of the two key members of government mentioned above. BJ was able to get a scholarship to E but RS was n’t awarded one for W. Presentation valued over substance and detail by E? Still I am sure it is different nowadays .

totally pointless going to one one those three schools just for (or because of) exam results.

You go, if we are honest, because of the extra curricular opportunities, the network, and the crumbly old buildings.

That’s simply not true - there’s also

I) the very personal academic attention and smaller classes
ii) the excellence of the teachers in those classes (some of them are certifiable geniuses who’ve worked for NASA or received Oxbridge PhDs)
iii) the academic excellence of your contemporaries that elevates the general standard
iv) the insightful preparation for university applications (especially Oxbridge and Ivy League universities)

• as well as the exams. Extra-curriculars, which you can get anywhere, are actually precisely not what you send your children to these schools for.

@jxvh

You get smaller class sizes at any private school.

Academic excellence of peers and teachers: you can get that at state grammars, Harris Westminster, King’s Maths School, or private day schools like MGS, King Edward VI, St Paul’s. And in many of above cases, it is genuine excellence that isn’t flattered by arrogance or family privilege.

Preparation for Oxbridge applications...based on our family’s experience I’m not sure this is all that true. Or at least, whatever preparation the school does do merely offsets the higher bar now set for Etonians by Oxbridge colleges. In marginal cases, they will go with candidates with the most raw potential, not the ones who have had the best preparation. The Etonians who win Oxbridge places now are the very best of the best - clever enough to have got a place whatever school they’d attended.

Re extra curriculars - to some extent you “get these anywhere” - in that other schools do do drama, art, sport - but the size and wealth of Eton/Harrow means there is more choice, better facilities, and generally higher standards (because they can recruit for extra curricular ability). What other school has its own Olympic rowing lake? How many schools can fill the Royal Albert Hall for one of its concerts? You see this a lot at places like Wellington too - when parents come away from school tours they are not talking about exam results and the teachers with PhDs... they are imagining their son being coached by an England rugby coach or performing on a West End-quality stage - particularly if they never had those opportunities themselves. I am not saying it’s the right or only basis to choose a school, but extra curricular achievements and facilities are visual, tangible, and they have a huge effect on parents.