Can we have a not-too polarised discussion about Eton, Harrow and Winchester?

[needtothinkaboutseniorschools]

I need to choose a senior school by the end of this year. We're looking at these three after discussion with school. Ds is only 9 so it's difficult to know what he'll be like in 4 years but right now he likes quantum physics, Lego and Dr Who and is very musical. He would be aiming for a music scholarship or exhibition and I trust the advice from the school as they clearly have a lot of experience in recommending senior schools.

I'm amazed we're even thinking about these schools and think all of them look amazing, but I've trawled through other mn threads and seen that some posters have extreme opinions about some of these schools. I'm thinking surely they can't be so different, as they all look great and they take boys from similar prep schools.

So please could I have some informed views on what the schools are like, without it getting too polarised? We will look at all three, but I know that the view you get on an open morning or tour isn't the same as the day-to-day experience.

We are also considering some state schools near to us, as those are good too, but clearly offer a very different experience.

Indrid - re your link much of that resonates with me re W. One huge difference between W and E is that W is just so much less famous. I don't know if that is a luxury or a disadvantage. To be honest I probably don't mind - W got Ds on to his next step and he had a blast along the way. Can you tell I do not work for Gabbitas

What drew you to that tale wurzel?

DarklingJane Isn't that normality rather than a luxury?

(I'm not sure I'd be keen on being taught, in my first few days at senior school, how to react to tourists wanting to take your photo, but the boys don't seem to mind. Famousness is definitely a disadvantage.)

Sent it by an American cousin,she knew we had looked at Winchester.

Gruach - I wasn't trying to get into a tourist debate but W has its fair share of tourists - e.g. tours round school / city. The boys (I imagine - and I only can ) can feel a bit fish pondy etc (albeit less dressed up . ) No it was just a muse about the fact that E pupils have a much higher profile in the media etc . DS is probably getting more of that now but he was in the shallow ponds at W

I think that the greater fame of Eton, and the adherence to the uniform brings the boys much more attention, and opprobrium (and the odd egg being chucked at them).

Learning how to deal with that is just an extra element of education that Eton offers maybe. It is a bit Adam Ant 'ridicule is nothing to be scared of'.

Indrid - Molesworth matron and Adam Ant. Prob bad form to refer to previous threads but . You're my kind of girl.

No My only point was (and I was thinking out loud ) always a bad idea on the internet is that (ref Temp's view above and I agree with it ) the Venn diagram of boys who would get on at either school would have a hugely more middle section than cliche would suggest. And that W boys do not have to deal with the higher profile (which I actually think could be a luxury) They are not immune but mostly people don't throw eggs at a "dress code" rather than a distinctive uniform. Don't get me wrong I think that E is marvellous.

What I will once say is that the "go to"

version of the W boy as not fizzy or outgoing or robust is IMHO misguided. I cannot tell because my experience is necessarily vicarious and the Eton boy may be more outgoing etc. I just don't think there is that big a difference based on DS and his friends.

Anyhow - I'll leave it there. I have said too much.

No, it is an interesting question DJ. Someone above said they hadn't known any boy from their prep applying to both who didn't "get" both. At ours I know there were boys who were accepted at one but not the other. And, as I've said before, the boys always seemed to have a good idea of who would end up where - perhaps because over the course of a few years they see which older boys proceed to the various schools.

My tastes are nothing if not eclectic Darkling .

DS has just reminded me that the boy in Wurzel's link was in his house, although he had just left by the time DS started.

He wouldn't be drawn further, except to add that apparently no one who ever met him has forgotten it!

I think after wurzel's link and above discussions Winchester can now be referred to as the 'infamous institution', whilst Eton and Harrow continue as 'famous' .

My only experience is of Winchester, where friends send their DS. He is charming, very quirky and artistic, not especially sporty and, afaik, loves its eccentricity.

So little Johnny - time to think about Big School. Are you fizzy or quirky.

Add to that 'do you want to go to somewhere infamous or famous'. Obviously one of the basic criteria for admission to any of them would be whether the 8-9 year old knew the difference between infamous and famous.

So do we think Fotherington-Thomas went on to W or E or H,or somwehere else?,must admit the sport is a distraction talk did make me think "hello clouds"

It's a crossword clue:-

Famous school (4)

Indrid I am no good at crosswords but I think I can guess this one.

Wurzel. sport is a distraction Well for all the boys who won't end as professional sportsman it is a distraction (definition a diversion or a recreation). For some it may also be a distraction (other definition) from concentrating on academic or different pursuits.

I don't know this housemaster (although my DS has told me before that he is a popular choice) but if I were assessing a housemaster (rather than the housemaster assessing my DS) then I would actually want him to talk about himself as it would give more of an idea of their attributes. BTW nobody becomes a housemaster at any of these three senior schools without being very much interested in the boys under their care. These are very competitive and intensive positions in the school.

Well I think Ds could be a bit firky or a bit quizzy .

Infamy , Infamy

DarklingJane a Carry On clip is rather apt in view of how we 'carry on' about these schools .

I'm not sure if I've read rightly on this thread that OP's son is a quiet 'type' and therefore Eton wouldn't suit. I too have a quiet, shy ds but he's a very good all - rounder. I visited the Independent Schools show yesterday in Battersea and Eton had a stall . The House Master was most charming and I more or less said that I didn't think Eton was for the 'likes of us' financially or personality wise for ds. He was very encouraging and said that it would be a bit of a nightmare basically if they took all of the very confident boys that applied. As others have said, they are looking for a good house 'mix'. I would imagine that if your son is musically gifted and a good all rounder and his school have recommended it, then he would fit in perfectly there.

It hasn't been on our radar at all but I'm now going to visit.

Good for you, Mrs Patmore! If it’s any consolation, you’re not the first one to have this misconception about Eton. I recall reading an article written by a certain journalist (who had a natural ‘hatred’ for Eton) but had somehow arranged an interview with the recently retired Head, Tony Little. After a day’s visit at the School talking with Tony and having met the boys, he left in the night driving home into the dark wintry country lanes still wanting to ‘hate’ Eton but could not now find any reason for doing so. Instead, he found himself ‘converted’.

Yes, I strongly advise you to temporarily shelf all your prejudices, misconceptions etc. about Eton (if you have any) and just pay the School a visit going in with an open mind and the belief your son has a right to be there. But please be prepared to be blown away with the things you see there. After that, you can then work your way towards your goal if you and your DS are still interested.

About OP’s indecision, I’ve already said upthread it’s Eton through and through for her son.

Trying to find a link to the above said journalist who hated Eton (not successful) I found this equally interesting article instead.

Obviously lots of points have been covered here which I won't repeat but I thought it could be worth simply adding that my DS started at Wincoll in September as a first year (not expelled from elsewhere). DS housemaster encourages sporting participation and DS has continued with the same favourite sport he started with and plays matches regularly, plus has started two new sports which he is also enjoying. Over the first two / three weeks I believe all first years had to participate in taster sessions in 15 different sports. DS has also had regular art and music classes. He is neither arty or musical but enjoyed both much more than at prep school and spoke enthusiastically about how good the teachers were in those subjects. He also produced art work I never thought he was capable of. In addition pastoral care has been wonderful following both a bout of homesickness and a death in the family. I don't think I have any grounds to criticise the school (yet!) and remain happy with our choice. Oh, almost forgot that Div has very much 'kicked in' and is also being enjoyed and I both think and hope is going to be a contributor to the 'all round' education we are seeking.

Congratulations on the Eton offer! Presumably your next step there is the house selection process, and that will give you useful opportunities to talk to boys and house staff about what it's actually like in the houses you consider. TBH if your DS is offered both Eton and Winchester (good luck for the latter!) I don't think there is a bad choice available to you; they are both good at choosing boys who will thrive and almost all seem to do so. Just take all the opportunities you get to visit and see what feels right.

Needtothink - think long and hard about passing up a place at Eton. It's a fabulous school and was the making of my ds.

Oh yes, and many congrats to your DS on both the offers.

"1 in 12 gets kicked out after GCSE"
As far as I'm aware only 1 got "kicked out" after GCSEs in my DS's year. A few left for other reasons but none in his house and none of his friends.
They are different schools with quite different ethos's (I know parents with DS's at both and they will testify to this) there's plenty on here who will tell you Eton is the obvious and only choice, and maybe if you'd like it enough to register your DS and he's been offered a place then perhaps they're right.

How crucial is your choice? Again if you like both and get offered a place at both probably not very.
I'm not prepared anymore to get into an endless arguement where I say X about Winchester and certain people on here come along and tell me that either I'm wrong or Eton does it better. If you want a totally honest warts and all opinion of Winchester you are welcome to PM me.
I believe Winchester is a fabulous school, I don't know if it's been the "making" of my DS because TBH I'm not really sure what that means, but I do it know it gave him permission to be the individual (non conformist warts and all) that he is and he was very much accepted by the staff and his friends as that person. I believe this is very important for adolescents who are under so much pressure to conform to a whole variety of expectations thrown at them by family friends schools the media in general and social media in particular. Therefore for me being not only very much allowed but postively encouraged to walk your own path at this often tricky phase in your life is a most important thing.