At what point is going private NOT worth it?

[lexlees]

I was chatting to a friend recently and we got chatting about schools. Their only daughter goes to a top private school and it is a real financial strain on them. They reckon they spend 40% of their net family income on school fees and extras. All her wages go towards the school fees and even then only covers 2/3 of it - the remaining third comes from her husband's salary.

From my perspective I don't see how it is worth it. She maintained that it is not unusual. They just want their child to have 'every advantage' because both she and her husband went private.

Their girl is bright but didn't qualify for any bursary or scholarship and failed to get into the selective state school (they did try all three). Although the girl was top of her class in her state primary, she now feels so much pressure because she hasn't gotten an 'A' in anything yet. She is now no longer the bright one and it took two terms to make friends. I'd love to say she is a lovely girl, but honestly, she is an ungrateful and mean brat (she used to beat up/be cruel to my ds every time they were alone - then lie about it - hence I don't bring my ds anymore to their house).

They are putting minimal money into pensions and have only 'one term's worth' of savings. They haven't had a holiday for two to three years, never eat out and hardly buy stuff (except for stuff for their daughter - so she doesn't feel 'left out' at school) as they have a mortgage as well. They also don't have parental financial support or expect much of any inheritance either. I feel like my friend has changed into some penny pinching miser, always working out how to save pennies and she is just worn out from a low paid job!

It got me wondering if other people are just making ends meet to send a child or children private. Is she correct that it is normal? At what point does it become NOT worth it.

Ticked, not tucked!

We did, it is an ok school and even now we still like the head. Yes, I only know by then it has always been outstanding no less and consider as "free fee paying" private school as it was appraised as excellent. At that point we thought if she didnt get the place then we would go private as there are plenty of excellent private in the area too. It would stretch our budget as we are working full time so on top of the fee we will have to pay for childcare especially they have more holidays than state.

Had I didnt ask too much(learning foreign language and can communicate a little), have a quality(along with the fun) bits for music and progress and a little more support for better than average/no issue children then it was a perfect school

My child's state is considered good, and indeed I think it's fine. It does what it says on the tin, with I think no frills.

I can see the difference with the private. However whether I think it's worth it? Yes if you can spare the cash.

It's a bit like food. Marks and Spencer's canapés. Bag of crisps. Same calories? So do the same job, but the enjoyment factor is not perhaps the same.

Greenleave given that you visited that primary school and yet did not know it was actually a little bit crap, do you not think the same could happen with a private school?

I think you should have learned by now that you can't know what a school is really like until your DC is in it. With a private school, once your DD starts you will be finanically tied to it whether you like the school or not.

I would suggest that, assuming your DD doesn't get a place at Tiffin (or have you decided against that now?) and you do decide to go private, that you don't just assume that you won't have any issues just because you are paying a fairly sizeable sum of money.

Absolutely you certainly don't know what things are going to be like until you try them!

Sure, I could only say based on my experience and yes I am still learning thats why I still spend time here. And because we know how hard to earn some money is and without any grandparents support hence we must be very careful in our choice. I still have couple of years now till then lets see!

Greenleave you might want to look at the admissions criteria for the private schools you are considering. Their exam timings etc. are not the same as the 11 plus schools you are considering. What's more, depending on the private school, you may need to sent your DD to a feeder prep. so fees many come into play sooner than you think.

@mum: thank you for your advice, I am doing some research now on my own, will add your points to my notes

Communication with private schools is quite good but as a parent I don't want the teachers bothered by constant emails from parents. In some ways I pay fees to keep parents out of school and let the school get on with what they are good at. It can really disrupt teachers if parents are constantly going up to the school, sending emails etc so I have always tried to avoid it unless it's essential. However I suspect you might get a bit of a faster response in a private school. I have my sons' tutors email addresses.

If you can afford it paying fees is worth it in my view if you pick a good private school - choose with care. If you can't it's not worth worrying too much about as you can find good schools particularly if you move to an area which has them and some elements you can buy outside. Even received pronunciation which is very important in many jobs but I suspect state schools don't go on about too much can be learned out of school.

I visited a school last night as part of the widening participation scheme.

It was excellent. The SLT were both present ( unusual) and open minded.

And whilst bertrand is correct that it is money that usually prevents state schools offering what their private peers can, the things I saw last night would cost most schools nothing/very little.

It is very frustrating that so many schools refuse to implement them.

Deogratias, surely received pronunciation is something you learn at home, not at school?

Many kids can speak the local accent/dialect as well as RP.

Local accents are all the rage anyway (look at the bbc).

If your teachers and your fellow pupils speak in a way that will be useful to you when you get certain jobs that helps. You can also find that in some state schools too. Local accents are not particuarly all the rage in the jobs which pay well, not that high pay is necessary for everyone and I am sure how he speaks did not get my son his postman job - more his fitness and reliability I suspect. Although quite a bit of the job seems to be being nice to older people who are lonely so I suppose you need to be able to communicate for that.

DeoGratias out of interest, could you name some highly paid jobs where RP would be useful/needed?

baby it depends.

I am from oop north with a strong regional accent. DH is a scouser.

Both my DC speak in what bertrand once coined modern posh ( though DD veering towards RP). It ain't from me and their Dad.

I think these days accents are far more common ( though let's be honest in some jobs most people speak RP/MP).
Some seem more 'acceptable' than others.

But it's not the accent really that holds people back, it's the blurred lines between slang and what's inappropriate.

mum it's not necessary to speak RP/MP in many spheres, but let's be very honest, it helps.

Shegot Genuine question - what things were you thinking of in your post above, about things that cost little, but schools refuse to implement them?

SheGotAllDaMoves with the exception of law, politics PR and media where else would you find people speaking RP in numbers?

The highest paid people I have worked with have come from the US. I didn't really get the impression that they tutored in RP.

I think many large companies would prefer accent neutral, particularly if it is a global organisation.

Regional accents play an important part in advertising.

kesstrel

+1

Greenleave I can relate to your every post. We are having very similar experiences. I live in Greater London, where population is dense and it is easy to compare schools. I send/sent my children to a much sought after state, CE primary. The pace has always been too s-l-o-w. No amount of chats or even imploring has ever sped it up.

We decided to send DD1 to private school for secondary. Our local secondary options were not as good as primary and we were already dissatisfied with our state primary. Academically dissatisfied,that is; socially, it has been great to be part of the local community.

I am also foreign and these are the useful things I learned:

1. Get a copy of an old entrance exam from the schools you are considering. It is an eye opener.

1. Almost everyone tutors for these exams. In the case of children coming from state schools you need to plug a gap in the curriculum. In the case of children coming from preps, the parents are committed, well funded, and won't leave any detail to chance.

1. Private schools tell you that they have many new students joining them in year 7 from state primaries. This is stretching the truth a bit. In DD's form there are only three students out of 25 from state primary schools, the other 22 are from fee paying prep schools. Not the "nearly 50%" they suggested at the open day!

1. DD1's accent is becoming more neutral. Her estuary twang is softening away quite quickly. She is starting to sound more like her father, who hardly has a cut glass accent, but sounds a bit like the BBC news announcers. Not clipped or plummy, just sort of a standard Southern English. When she is back with her old friends she slips back into the vernacular seamlessly!

1. DD1 has noticed that most of the other girls are ahead of her academically. She particularly notices in English and Maths. English being the subject that she feels most behind in. (Outside inspectors came to our primary to check the teachers' levels on writing and moderated her at a Level 7. Level 7! And she feels like she isn't getting it right. Probably a style issue, but just shows that the state and private standards are different.) She also finds the modern foreign languages difficult because she is starting from zero in both, while the other children have had some gentle exposure for years through their preps. She is having no problem in the sciences, PE, PCHE, Latin or Geography.

Whew! That was an epistle! I can see similarities of experience between us and, given that so much of our primary experience is the same, I thought perhaps what I am learning about secondary would be useful for you.

Some 'modern posh' accents are immensely grating. There's a particular strain of it which I'd filter as 'modern girls' boarding school' which is appalling. Give me a scouse accent any day.

Children's accents frequently don't mirror their parents'.

I personally like the Geordie accent. It always sounds warm, kind and unpretentious to me.

Children speak like their social group. Not their parents.

I'm another one interested in the things you saw last night DaMoves, which cost little but are innovative.

Yes me too SettlinginNicely. Scots accents are tops for me, then it moves down the country in terms of accents which are good to listen too. I like South and East London too, but that may be nostalgia from childhood.

kesstrel

Off the top of my head;

Setting - early and flexible. Not 'banding' (which is only a spit from streaming). And across the board (English and MFL do not, despite what some SLT say, benefit from mixed ability teaching IMVHO).

Triple science - all schools should offer it.

Choice of MFL - if schools can afford to fund a plethora of vocational subjects they can afford to value MFL.

Option blocking - schools should make it possible for a pupil to take a good mix of academic subjects. No one should be forced to choose a practical subject. Or, as on a current MN thread, to choose between History, Geography or triple science.

Appropriate option choice time - DC should not be forced to decide upon their GCSE options too early (just so schools can reduce contact hours in some subjects and start year 8s on their GCSEs).

Appropriate number of GCSEs - no pupil need take 13/14. Ridiculous.

Advice on GCSE options - pupils should not be receiving no/poor/wrong advice on equivilence etc. Ditto A levels. Ditto universities.

Widening participation at tertiary level - some schools simply refuse to engage with this.

I could go on......

What's so frustrating is that some schools get these things right which just proves that it can all be done. The fact that so many schools take decisions not to do these things. It is a clear choice on the part of the SLT. It is utterly unfair to the pupils that attend and their parents and the teachers who have absolutely no control over the SLT decision making process.

to not too.