ALL NEW; WHITGIFT/TRINITY/DULWICH/ALLEYNS 10+/11+ 2016

[MrsPatmore]

Thought I'd go ahead and start. Found the old threads really interesting and would welcome ongoing input from those who've been through the whole process.
Ds in Year 5 and we are looking at a mixture of grammar schools and indies for 11+ Whitgift recommended this year - we've been told there is a drive to raise academic standards. We're going to the Open afternoon on 10th Nov.

Just to add - a 135 pages of a report on school places is a lot of reading to go through!

The supply of secondary places v expected number of applicants is on p.97.

thanks. The forecast shows that the council expects an over supply in the short term, especially over the next couple of Septembers, because there will be a first expansion and new school coming on stream (creating 8 extra form entry), but even with a further new school (another 6 FE) there is expected to be a shortage of secondary places in 5 or so years time. But at least that shortfall is expected to be about 20, not the hundreds it would be if they did not start creating those new places now.

And though that'll have an effect on local applicants to Croydon independents, it's not the whole picture of the numbers because of how many Claphamites apply.

The scholarship could be as much as 50%. Does anyone know if Combined with academic scholarship, is it possible to get 100% scholarship?

50% is the highest of the combination.

ElevenPlusSoon, I believe it is possible (but rare of course) to get over 50% via a combination of scholarship plus bursary.

But you would normally have needed to apply for a bursary well before now because the competition for them is fierce, even assuming that you were eligible for one of course.

SJ69 ,jgjgjgjgjg, Thanks. Haven't applied the bursary.

50% is the highest combination of all scholarships. If combined with bursary, it depends on your income, e.g. if your income is less than £16000(or 18000?), you only pay as little as 201 pounds per year. Another expense for year 6 and year 7 is the school lunch is compulsory, cost about 250-300 per term.

BoSelectaBigBiff... Yes DS was offered scholarships from both W & T. We chose W and DS has absolutely loved it this far. Lower First Year 6) is a fantastic way for the boys to get up to speed with how W works and also allows them to to settle in.
In terms of ability range, I would say that pretty much every boy excels at something. There are some scarily bright Mathematicians, Science Geeks along with some brilliant actors and Sportsmen. There is also a very healthy mix of prep and state kids and it is avert diverse school (which if you've seen my comments about Alleyns, you'll know is very important to me). One last thing I would say however is that the boys are ultra competitive in pretty much everything. That works wonderfully well for
my DS but I'm not sure it's the right school for boys who are a little "delicate".

Lastly, I can honestly say that we had no inkling of scholarship at all during the interview. We were told he had done very well in VR, Maths and Essay and not as well in Comprehension but other than that it was more about how he would fit the school and take advantages of the opportunities. After the interview we spent much of our time overanalysing what was said etc but ultimately, I don't think there is a way of knowing unless they explicitly tell you. Oh and we were seen by Head of Admissions not by the Head, Mr Beck, Mr Norris (it is often thought that ONLY if you are seen by Dr Barnett, Mr Beck or
Mr Norris then you are in line for a scholarship)
HTH

Thank you firefox. I'm really glad that your DS has fitted in so well and is enjoying it. I completely agree about the diversity issue - we're not near enough Alleyns to consider it (we're south Croydon-ish) but that would have really put me off, by the sounds of it.

I don't really think we're in line for a scholarship at all - I'm really just hoping for an offer at this stage! YY to the overanalyis of interviews though only 2 weeks to go until we know....

We are definitely over-analysing and will be glad when we finally hear! DS didn't have Mr Beck for interview but we are a hopeful of a sports scholarship. He also didn't have a member of the sports team so who knows.......... It feels like a long two weeks!!

And of course, it isn't just the 2 weeks, for some there will be a wait until 1 March and a flurry of activity from then to the end of term.

As an aside..Ladymuck or anybody in the know... Any whispers as to who is in the frame for the Headship at W?

Now, now, ladymuck, stop stirring!

But seriously, thank you for the reminder. Although presumably for 10+, it'll be over either way a bit sooner than for 11+ (?)

Wasn't trying to stir at all. For those on the waitlist it can be a tense time. Even at 10+ there can be lots of movement if a school gets its offer ratio wrong - bear in mind that they're working in the dark to a large extent, as I suspect that no parent has gone to interview saying "this is my 3rd choice school". If a school goes over its places by enough to warrant an additional class (as I think T did last year at 10+), then ideally they want to fill that class which means suddenly an extra 10 or more boys coming from waitlist, or from another school. And at 11+ of course last year, there were boys who were told that they had failed WCGS 2nd round who then got an offer, which rejigged places in April.

Headship - won't have formally shortlisted yet as ad is still out. But the timing indicates that they definitely want an existing HMC head - it will be interesting to see whether they do achieve that. Given how many HMC moves there have been recently, and I suspect they'll want someone under 50 with at least 5 years headship under their belt, and I'm not sure that Whitgift is ready for a woman at the top, half an hour or so with the Independent Schools Handbook would give you a short list.

Plus families who don't actually have a favourite and would give serious consideration to all and any offers - I am sick if being asked "which is our favourite" by DS school.

Thank you ladymuck (I was only joking about the stirring!). I am obviously keeping fingers crossed that we won't need a wait list (but it's useful to keep in mind that we might have another few weeks of nail biting).

It's been some time I haven't posted. Our W interview took place last week and we think it went well although I know it does not mean anything regarding the outcome. At least worries are over for us as we received an offer from another school which was actually DS favourite school (although he is now saying he wants to go to W!). Good luck to everyone and I'll be back in two weeks to share the outcome, whatever it is!

I don't really understand how the schools deal with this. Do all these schools- W T Alleyn and DC all have a waiting list? At the DC exam there were many kids who were trying for 3 plus schools. Some perhaps 5 adding in Royal Russell and Emmanuel. Clearly an academic kid could pick up a large number of places. How does this pan out? Surely that is the reason why so many schools have made the break for the border by pre testing? Apologies I am sure it is a totally ignorant question!

It is why they interview the top
200 out of 600 sitting the exam and then offer 100 places when there are only 60 spaces. Many will turn it down because they have offers elsewhere. Mainly it works. Sometimes there ends up being an extra class. No doubt someone else will explain it better. It is part of why if you hold more than one offer you must make up your mind quickly- and let them know so they can manage their lists.

I'm just wondering how much weight the headmaster's report makes to the overall decision making process? For instance if a boy's current prep goes up to 13, would the headmaster's report be less than complimentary in the hope of keeping a boy on at the school to 13, particularly if he is one of the top boys and hence can facilitate the reputation of the school?

I've heard rumblings at DS's school that the HM would rather the boys stay on and wondered if any boys' chances, even with a successful exam outcome would scuppered by this report, particularly if the school is a feeder school?

jezztri They can be key in sorting out borderline candidates.

Heads would not risk lying (whether bigging up, or unfairly doing down) in a reference. Not if they want to have any sort of functioning relationship with that secondary, or indeed any other. For if the word goes out that a head in unreliable, the references will simply not carry weight. Which won't matter for their strong performers, but could be quite a problem for their middling ones.

Also, it's better for a school's reputation to have happy parents, who have got the school they want when they want it, rather than ones who will say that their 11+ prep is inadequate. Yes, heads want more pupils to stay on to 13+, but not so badly they'll go in for dirty tricks. (Unless of course the head is a somewhat narcissistic megalomaniac - something you can't rule out totally)

Thanks, AnotherNewt. I guess schools (both current and prospective) have a real balancing act. Current don't want an exodus of children say at 9+, 10+ or 11+ and the prospect want to select the "best". We have another few years to worry about this, but I was quite surprised to hear that HMs had so much say in a boy's future.

I studied overseas where it is solely based on merit, no references no "deals" or "discussions", no meeting the parents because after all it is about the child and their abilities and background/creed/social class/parent's ability to pay shouldn't come into play.

jezztri... As AnotherNewt says, a prep head will not risk his/reputation by giving overly generous or harsh references. However, I have heard some terrible stories of Prep Heads writing rather unflattering references as to how "ready" a pupil is at 7+, 8+ or 10+. In at least 1 case I know of, the parent was furious when they were told that the Head would write that in the reference that he gave to W at 10+. The parent in question is convinced that is why he wasn't succesful (although of course it could be a whole host of unrelated reasons)

*his/her reputation

Of course if you're coming from a state school, you're on your own! The only in put in the process from our primary head was to send a copy of Ds's standard report from the end of the previous academic year. Nothing new was written, nothing specifically for the purpose of applying to the schools. Oh and of course, no advice for us, or assistance for DS.