ALL NEW; WHITGIFT/TRINITY/DULWICH/ALLEYNS 10+/11+ 2016

[MrsPatmore]

Thought I'd go ahead and start. Found the old threads really interesting and would welcome ongoing input from those who've been through the whole process.
Ds in Year 5 and we are looking at a mixture of grammar schools and indies for 11+ Whitgift recommended this year - we've been told there is a drive to raise academic standards. We're going to the Open afternoon on 10th Nov.

I'd actually prefer that Seeline as it is based purely on merit and not if you hang out with the HM at the weekend or if your family donates musical instruments to the school!

In which case, you might prefer to apply to state grammars (if there are any reachable). But you only need to look at the forums for that to see it brings different pressures, in terms of one exam day being the be-all and end-all.

Yes, no help for us either when we applied from our state school! We didn't even get to see what was submitted to W. I think that state school pupils will be assessed differently than those applying from preps for that very reason. One would assume favourably.

prep school applicants dont get to see what is submitted either and the standard is higher, plus, as others have said, the boys are very much ranked against the other 10 or so boys in their class that apply. So any disadvantage you feel at having come from a state school is very much cancelled out, imo. Not to mention the 1000s and 1000s of pounds you've saved over the years and the chance of a bursary.

How many boys attended the 10+ and how many places? I counted around 160 boys when I picked DS in the sports hall. Comparing with the City which 700 for 60 (11+) (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/2558474-City-of-London-Boys-11-interview), W is less tough than City.

ElevenPlusSoon... I'm not sure I understand what it is you are trying to compare? I would say there are around 200 sitting for 60 spaces at 10+ for W. I don't have any accurate figures for City 10+ (im too lazy to look) but I recall a figure of 32% take up of offers at 10+ a couple of years ago.

As for which school is "harder to get into", I don't think there is really a meaningful measure. Based on pure volume, I would say the grammars are the hardest schools to get into. Based on academic performance, it might be one of the three "top tier" schools (Westminster, St Paul's, a KCS)... Hard to know really

Thank you Firefox1066. Would like to have general picture which school is more academic. From the city thread, I found that city is more difficult even than some other top schools. DS is academic but not sporty. If not successful this year, would like to aim to a more academic at 11+.

For those that just did the 10+ and thinking of doing 11+ grammar, or just need a plan B!

Wallington Boys Familiarisation Test dates for mock exams can now be booked.

Elevenplussoon

I think you need to consider what you mean by academic, and what this looks like for your son. Numbers applying and where the cut off is will vary by year. City in particular is in a strange position as it is frequently a back up option for Westminster and St Pauls as well as a good option for boys who are less sporty than average for Dulwich College say. They have to make a lot of offers to fill their places. There would be relatively few boys travelling past Whitgift and Dulwich to get to City. Academic boys who want to do less sport have Trinity and Alleyns as good options too.

Whitgift has a very large yeargroup - by 13+ usually over 200 v City at 145. The brightest are very bright. The top sets for each MFL are streamed and have their humanity lessons in those languages - something I haven't seen anywhere else locally. IB as well as A levels are well established and successful. There are a lot of extension opportunities in each department. The school produces dozens of Arkwright engineering scholars, the top sets can do 3 or 4 languages at GCSE, as well as extra maths. I could go on. Academic boys can do very well there. Whitgift have just had 22 Oxbridge offers, City 25.

The lower range of ability will do fewer GCSEs, with the emphasis on getting the best possible results from those, so some boys will only do 8 GCSEs.

Looking at how easy or difficult it is to get into the school doesn't really give you a true picture of how academic it is IME. With most senior schools, you want to get an idea of where your boys might fit within his cohort. It can be demoralising to feel as if you are struggling in a very bright mix.

What I'm trying to say, is that on the whole, especially when looking at the day schools, each of these schools will cater for academic boys. The extent to which they differ in terms of say league tables is not across the top sets, and if you limited Whitgifts results to its top 145 boys, then they would of course be even higher.

So if you are comparing schools I would think about the ethos of each school, and what type of boy thrives there. The difference in terms of sport, and some of the competition that it brings can be a significant one, and whilst both schools are big enough for a wide range of personalities to find their niche and excel, you may view one environment or the other as being more suitable.

I don't think academic success should be judged on the number of Oxbridge offers. That being said, Ladymuck's Oxbridge figures for City are incorrect-34 City boys had Oxbridge offers in 2015, not 25. This represents about 24 per cent of City's university applicants, compared to about 12 per cent of Whitgifts applicants.

I also think it's important to point out that City's fees are considerably lower than St Pauls and Westminister and as a result there are a fair number of students who have offers from all three schools and opt for City.

Ps-there are plenty of very, very sporty boys at City!

"Ladymuck's Oxbridge figures for City are incorrect"

I'm quoting the 2016 offers, not 2015.

Whilst I agree that academic success isn't all about Oxbridge, the point I am making is that in a typical year the brightest boys at these schools will do equally well. Whether these boys make up 12%, 25% or some other percentage of the cohort is immaterial. A bright boy will not be on his own in either environment, and if anything, I am trying to emphasise that looking at %s of boys doesn't give you a picture of what your child might achieve. Boys entering City do not have an equal 25% chance of an Oxbridge offer. Ditto Whitgift. It is about where you are in the cohort and the opportunities available to you.

I agree.

By the way, are all Oxbridge 2016 offers in now?

Hi All
Very interesting and informative thread. Was looking for this year thread😊 Thank god found it at right time 😂😂
We decided at the very last minute for our DS to sit the W exam for 10+ to see how the exam system works and to give him the insight for 11+ As he's in a state primary.
he had been invited for sports assessment first and then called back for hardball cricket assessment. Interview was with Mr Lance who told us that DS done well in maths despite being a tricky paper, essay writing and VR was good too but average in comprehension. Do they reject children who are borderline in one area but above Average in others?? Although Mr Lance did mention that DS is a bright boy but do they say same kind of lines to all the parents?? Maybe I am over worrying about minor stuff
we didn't initially thought to send him to indie school in 10+ but now being in the process of being called for interview and couple of sports assessment DH changed his mind and this two week wait seems like a century.

Obviously hoping for positive result but just incase for any unwanted outcomes want to know if anyone can tell me if Emmanuel school any good In terms of sports and academia comparing with whitgift.
Many thanks in advance
Sam

Hi there, welcome to the thread where everyone e is trying to wait patiently! I dont know anything about Emmanuel, sorry. Could he stay where he is until 11+ if no joy this year?

Samferoz - imo Whitgift is superior to Emanuel in terms of facilities. W results are better but then they are taking the brighter boys
If you are considering Emanuel for 11+ entry 2017 best register asap - they have already closed their list and are running a waitlist

Samferoz- it sounds to me like Mr Lance was managing expectations as far as a scholarship offer goes but they don't tend to say 'he's a bright boy' and then not offer a place at all, especially if your son is good at sport.

Whitgift is very different to Emanuel - it's aiming to be up there with the best schools in the country (it's not there yet but is very ambitious) whereas Emanuel is only ever going to be a decent local school

Hi Everyone I've been reading through all the comments which have been really helpful. Congrats to all who have all had interviews and now waiting acceptances from school.
Does anyone now if they only mention abt scholarships at interview or do we just hear wen we get letters of offers from school?

Think it varies by school. One parents were invited to, and we we were told it was a scholarship i.v.
Others we were not part of I.v., nothing was said about it til letters turned up. Which was a v lovely surprise!😉
Good luck

Thanks citykat

Hi all I've been reading the messages on this forum with interest. My son sat both w and T. He had an interview with the deputy headmaster at W and was told he was being considered for a scholarship as his results were in the top 10%. Does anyone know what amount of scholarship we can expect , if any?

The level of scholarships range from 5% to 50%, with there being far more of the former than the latter. If your son is in the top 10% then he is the top 50-70 boys. Certainly W seem happy enough to tell you if your son scored the highest, or say in the top 5 scores for any paper, so he might not be at the top of the lists. The majority of scholarships at 10 & 11+ seem to be at the 5-25% range with larger awards going to candidates who also excel in co-curricular.

Thanks Ladymuck just wanted to know what to be prepared for! He did 10 plus so need to decide whether to move for year 6 or 7 but a good scholarship would persuade us. Will have to see!

Hi bitbybit did u apply to Trinity school? If so how did u decide to go with Whitgift. If I get offers from both schools not sure how u should really decide the best one as we only get 2 weeks to decide after receiving offers.

A lot of people would have decided on their preferred school right from the start, before the exams. You actually have 4 weeks to think about it - two weeks now, before you get your offers, and two more weeks from the offer day until the deadline to accept. I'd imagine that's plenty of time.

Thanks Berora. Have decided on your preference?