Are private schools worth the fees you pay?

[lupo]

Hi

I was looking for some advice from those of you who send your kids to private school. I have one son and recently went to visit Staines Prep School and really fell in love with it.

The thing is we could just about afford the fees, but I will need to work more hours (full instead of part time)as well as few sacrifices along the way. not planning on having any more children, and would like to go private as classes seem smaller, and sounds like children get lots of help and support.

Just wanted to know of your experiences of independant schools and whether good ones are worth the money. Any advice much appreciated.

Like the school but am going on gut instinct, and it is one of the few we could just afford.

answer to original post ..yes,yes,yes and yes again . so worth every penny IMO

like you say swifts, a whole other thread....!!

yes I know the school frogs and it's really nice, far better than Channing which is extremely pressurised and where they only allow girls to take an A level subject if they have an A or A* in the GCSE. Nice! you made the right decision IMO!!

plus channing would cost a fortune as well!

Hey donnie, you're in danger of becoming the North London secondary schools guru! Actually I quite liked Channing, I thought they were less pressured than City. The head of City, frankly, gave me the creeps, whereas the new head of channing seemed quite jolly.

Swift, there are lots of people who chose private schools over dd1's school, and plenty who put the pushy grammars first and use dd1's school as a fallback option. But it's right for her -- very personal decision in the end.

it's a bit of a networky thing when you are a teacher...I have taught around the area for around 15 years now and know teachers in all the schools you have mentioned ( not the purple uniform one though). I have a few years off before I start fretting about my 2 dds' secondary education as they are 5 and 2! I'm already thinking about it though....

frances5 - I'm a Hemelite, too!
My niece is 19 now - she went to STAGS - a supposedly non selective school apart from the fact that the parents have to go for an interview! About 97% of the kids get 5 A*-C GCSEs. She managed 3 inc English & Maths after hundreds of £s worth of home tuition - the school wouldn't have got her thru.
On the other hand I have friends with kids at Longdean (I think about 39% % good GCSEs) who have got about a dozen each including at least 8 A & A*. I think that the child's abilities & attitude, parental support etc count for SO much more than the school's position in the league tables.
ps My niece is now VERY happy learning to do conveyancing.

I'm glad that your niece is happy and doing well. I know someone whose son got 7 A* and 2 As from Ashley Cooper School. fortyplus, I am sure that you would agree that Ashley Cooper School has a bit of repuation for being rough to put mildly. I think it makes life easier being in more middle class school, but good family support and the child working hard is more important.

Schools chop and change a lot. My husband went to Cavendish and recently I have worked there as an invigilator. Cavendish School is quite a rough school now, where as 30 years ago it was one of the best in the area.

Yes - times do change, don't they? Astley Cooper's problems are largely based on disciplinary issues - because it is under subscribed (probably the only school in Hemel that is nowadays) they end up with all the children that have been expelled from other schools, plus all those from the traveller's site in 3 cherry trees lane. But you're right - if a child has the right attitude he/she will thrive. I went there a few years ago to do an evening computer course and was really impressed with the quality of some of the work on display. It's a shame when a school gets a bad reputation because the motivated parents don't want to send their children there.
I heard that Cavendish has bullying issues, but another friend has 2 kids there - one of whom is 'unusual' in many ways, but neither of hers have had problems. Her older one got 7 B & C gcses - he's very intelligent so i might've expected more but she is just delighted that he's gone into 6th form.

Hi sorry to hi-jack this thread but I am from Hemel too and went to Highfield Comp which was a god damn awful school in its time and probably why it was eventually knocked down. It is interesting what you say about Astley Cooper as my siblings went there when it was Grovehill and quite a good school then. Surprised about Cavendish as this was a good school in our day. If I remember they used to wear a purple uniform. Anway it just made me think about my school days. Going on from my school days I would definitely say if you can afford it go private. I would have loved to have had the opportunity.
XX

Wow! Two other people living in Hemel! My son is at a really good infants school and he loves it.

I have to admit I am little worried about secondary as our local secondary school is Adeyfield. However I am hoping to move to Boxmoor and send my son to Hemel Hempstead school. I want him to have the chance to study seperate sciences if he is bright enough.

Its sad that very few state schools offer seperate sciences at GCSE. It is much harder to go on and do A-level sciences from a combined science. To make matters worse state schools do something called "21st Century Science" which involves lots of discussing scientific issues rather than learning facts. This makes the leap to A-level harder and puts state kids at a disadvantage if they want to study something like medicine.

However I think that school is more than just passing exams. Andrew is mixing with a wide range of people and developing excellent social skills.

In answer to the OP - no, they are not worth the money you spend. Much better to take the 20k or so you would spend on them in a year and put it towards a mortgage for each child (I am thinking of 2 children)and when they reach 18 present each of them with a property portfolio you have built up over the preceding years. After all this is going to be the real worry for our kids. In 20 years time it won't matter what job/profession you are in bugger all people will be able to afford property.

Just a thought.

'In 20 years time it won't matter what job/profession you are in bugger all people will be able to afford property. '

And why is that such a big deal?

I'm just trying to get my head round that.

In the US, your status is all linked to what you do for a living.

Here, it seems to be whether or not you have property.

I just don't understand that.

Two things put me off going private:

1. I'm not comfortable with deliberately limiting the number of children I have based on whether I can afford to send them all to private school, feels like that would be messing with fate in some way, and who knows what amazing children I would be cheating myself out of.

2. SOME, but by no means all, privately educated children end up as braying cocky gits like the ones I have to work with in the City, and I'd hate my ds to turn out like that

I think if you can avoid the worst state schools, and actively encourage your child at home, then that's a terrific start in iteslf.

Expat.. I have no problem with renting property as such but in this country you have bugger all rights if you rent. I rented for years and I couldn't decorate or so anything significant. Having that kind of control over where you spend most of your time is important to me. Also the constant renewing of contracts made me feel insecure. When my last landlord gave me notice to quit I decided to buy a flat. Best thing I ever did.

I get the impression from TV that in the US you can have a real influence on the place you rent and that you can have long term contracts. This is an excellent idea and if it was like that here I probably wouldn't have bought.

Status means different thing to different people. I was thinking more of kids future security not their status. Having said that I hope my kids do well at school so that they have more of a choice about what profession/job they do. I do everything I can within a state system to ensure that.

My DS is 7 and one of his friends is a strict Muslim boy. DS told us today that his friend would have to have an operation on his wily when he is 7 or 'he will die'. DP explained that he wouldn't die but that he was being circumcised in line with his faith. DP then asked him what he was now going to say to his friend. He said he wouldn't say anything as his friend probably felt that he had to have this operation and if he said anything it might confuse him and he didn't want to do that. I suspect life lessons like this are more easily obtained in the state sector.

My dd2 has just started at a state secondary and had a friend round last week. Her friend had previously attended a prep school - the secondary school is a selective grammar with a reputation for being hard to get into. My dd is top of the class in maths (at the moment) and seems to be taking everything in her stride - of course, they are comparing marks at the moment, so this is well known among her peers. The friend's mother was visibly shocked when I told her what primary school dd had previously attended. She said (!!!!) Oh, I didn't know that children from that school got into xxx grammar school!!!! I nearly kicked her out of the door.

Having moved 1 child from state primary to independant, I would say that the biggest thing you get by paying for education is choice. How many people with children in state schools really get a choice of where they send their children. If you move house to get into the catchment area of a 'good' school, that implies that all your children will have to go to the same school. My two both need completely different things from the school experience.
The best thing to me about the school dd2 is in (non-selective but v. good accademically prep school) is that they will sit down, go through all the schools in the area and say whether they thought a)dd2 would get in (yes to all of them - she's very bright ) and b) whether they thought she would thrive there accademically AND socially (no to the most academic one as they thought it was too small for her!).
BTW both dds started off in a 'good' state primary, always in top 3 in county (high achieving county also) but it suited dd1 and not dd2. Also, they get very good sats results, but by the end of yr6 more than 50% will have had at least 12 months external tutoring - so suspect the results may have a lot to do with this.

Berries, do you mind me asking what age you moved them to independent.
X

dros - I am thinking along the same lines as you: -

2 x kids x £10K per year x 7 yrs = a big house deposit each and no debts from university

is private education really worth it?

Yes, choice, Berries, a good reason too.
Someone mentioned a child being told they wouldn't pass to the seniors at a private school. That's fair enough. TYhey give you loads of notice and you leave at 11. If you are not bright enough for the school it wouldn't be fair on you in the seniors. All the parents know that's the deal and they wouldn't want their child to remain anyway if they didn't fit in. It's a good system.

N London is so different from other areas. You get people after the Bucks state grammar schools, then you have lots of the best private schools in England from Westminster to Habs boys and girls, North London collegiate, St Paul's so not just like say Manchester with the one good private school. Then you have all those religious schools mentioned below. I remember interviewing a girl who'd moved from the Jewish Hasmodean HS coming to my daughter's school (I was doing a careers thing) She wanted a slightly less religious sixth form. Private muslim, state mulism and we're about to get the first state Hindu school. Surprised the atheists don't campaign more for their own schools.

The mention of Eton was not name dropping. I know loads of people from lots of different kinds of schools. It was someone talking to me about whether Eton is a social disadvantage these days which is actually very true in some quarters - something parents have to weigh up.

but iota the private education means when they get to university you keep on paying the £10k as you're used to it so they don't have univesrity debts and they do better throughout life (most surveys show) so earn more and get themselves better houses anyway and you perpetuate the wealth which is what tends to happen

but Xenia -lots of bright kids do well in the state system and go on to good jobs - loads of mumsnetters for example - there was a thread about it a couple of days ago

Yes, of course they do. 96% of people go to state schools but on average private school pupils earn more over their lives which is one factor in the decision making process. Another is how hard it is to afford the fees. No point in starving over children's education.

God - I have just wasted an hour of my life reading all this. But the question the OP asked has crossed my mind too.

I could send my children to the local village school which is a 3 minute walk away, is rated Good by Ofsted (not outstanding, not bad), has only 42 pupils in the entire school. Kids would have small classes and great support. But, very limited extracurricular stuff. I know I can find extracurricular stuff elsewhere, but it means me having to find it and even be aware that it's an option. Lazy I know but there is something to be said to having a school provide the lot.

There's also a gorgeous private school about a 15 minute drive away. The grounds are amazing (look like something from a Harry Potter film) and alarmingly, I agree with Xenia about nice grounds! But it certainly wouldn't be my deciding factor. They also have great education, a balance between single sex and mixed sex classes, an array of exciting after school activities etc.

When I look at the local school, I think it looks fine. But it's like looking at a holiday brochure for a self catering resort. Looks good, you'll have a nice time. Then you think, I know, I'll just take a peak at the all inclusive luxury resort and you start to get swayed by things you never even realised you wanted in the first place (and quite possibly don't need). I reckon the self catering option will give you more experience that you can use in real life. But that's not to say I'm not tempted by the all inclusive resort.

Think I am leaning towards state - largely because I couldn't face meeting parents like Xenia at school gates.

Xenia - are you referring to this research?

I'm not sure that the only significant factor is the school - I think a lot of it possibly has to do with the parents and their connections