Eton, Winchester etc. planning for the future

[WelshParent]

Dear All,

I am new to MN and this is my first post. So please be gentle with me if I do something wrong. I don't have one specific question but a bunch of related questions which I hope I can get some answers to.

OK, so we live in South Wales and DS is in yr3 at the moment at a local indie in Cardiff. It is a very good school but it is a full 3-18 type and produces very good A level results. DS is a bright kid and does lots of extra curricular activities including piano, tennis, swimming and ofcourse football. Teacher thinks that he is very good and is working at a level higher than expected.

Like many other parents we aspire for DS to be able to move to somewhere really good like Eton or Winchester. I have spent months and months reading about the admission procedures of each of those schools and some others like Harrow, Radley, Abingdon etc.

My first question is that if DS takes the pretest at Eton or Harrow and is offered a conditional place when time comes, I imagine they will want him to take CE. Now being in a 3-18 school he will not have been expressly prepared for CE. We do not have any good Prep school in S Wales, so that is not an option for us. Where would that leave us? Both of us spend a lot of time to guide him with his academics and would not have a problem preparing him for CE purely from a syllabus perspective but we do not have CE preparation experience. Would some private tutoring be enough over the normal school work (which is at quite a good level). What about subjects like Latin which may not be part of DS's school curriculum. Is dreaming of KS or Election a dream without being in a very good prep?

Secondly we are managing to afford school fees + other activities + uniform + childcare etc. of about 12k per annum as of now. We might be able to afford another 4-5k by really pushing ourselves. Now our total yearly take home is about 52k (gross of 79k) both working f/t. We do have some other commitments like financially supporting DH's mother, who lives abroad. So even though the 52k looks alright. We don't live too luxuriously at all, we do have a biggish house and pay a mortgage of about 1200. We don't have a huge lot of equity in it though. I know it is a speculative question but based on this are we likely to get a bursary if DS gets an offer or will our income work against us.

I will be ever so grateful for any replies.

After reading this very interesting debate about the merits and demerits of boarding, I decided to have a look at the amount of leave in the two schools that I started talking about. My finding was that boys are out of school for 145 days from E and 150 days from W during the current year. This is outside of any weekends during which boys go out for a meal with the parents etc. One of the big concerns that we have about boarding is if the physical separation and time spent away will in a small way detach DS from us (terrible feeling I know). But from the time DS will spent back at home I am feeling a little bit less nervous. Also it seems like the calendar lets boys go home literally every 20-25 days over the course of the academic year.

So ... OP I don't know if you've already read this article on private schools and bursaries? (I've poached it from another thread.)

It's maybe a little superficial but goes some way towards answering the point raised by another poster yesterday about being "the poor boy" at a rich school. (Which I had intended to respond to by pointing out that if everyone held back for that reason the purpose of offering bursaries would be entirely negated. Forgot.)

X'ed with you OP. It's not so much "let's" them go home as "forces" them to go. The staff (many of whom will be working effectively 24 hours a day on and off) need a break!

My DS (24) came home for a week-end recently with a new girlfriend. She said that some character trait of his was "typically Etonian". He replied that he had been on this planet for roughly 1,200 weeks of which only 150 had been spent at Eton. She should blame me and DH, not Eton, for any defective nurturing in his childhood!

"More opportunities in minor sports" the good thing about Win Coll is that it doesn't have a major and minor sport programe all sports are equal, so you can opt to do a "minor" sport at every games session. This is great for those who loath the traditional major team sports: rugby football cricket because basically you never have to do them, the "rugby" shirts were sent to the second hand uniform shop at the end of the first year unworn, and you can get more proficient than other schools in the a "minor" sport because you have more opportunities to do it, he went through two pairs of shoes soecific to his sport in 1 year, previously one pair has lasted two years. Your also more likely to make a team; a friends DS made it into the 1st VIII she said he was fairly devoid of talent but was not competing for a place against lots of others.
On the other hand there is not much depth of good players especially in the major sports so teams are often made up of a mixture of the good players, ok players and rubbish enthusiastic players so results are often not great.
We checked that DS's sport was offered by the school, we has no idea about the standard compared to other schools until he started. He is delighted that he can do it three afternoons a week and that all this practice has made them very formidable against the other schools on the circuit where with one exception it is a minor sport.
Sport is never going to be a priority at Win Coll opportunities to compete outside of school on non match days are a little limited. On the other hand we know how much effort has to be put into being successful at the next level up which would would also mean you were GB ranked and neither my DS or myself (I would have to be the chauffeur) wish to take it that far.

ZFD, I hadn't read that one, thank you for pointing me to it. I am not heavily concerned about the poverty aspect. I am in compelete agreement with you. While we may not be able to pay full fees at one of these schools, I don't think DS will need to survive on torn clothes or anything like that. The article shows how very underprivileged boys get on too. To be honest there is no dearth of kids who come to school in posh cars in DS's current school but not everyone is that wealthy. It doesn't concern me because that is life and will always be so. No matter how wealthy one is, there is likely to be another guy who is wealthier unless you are Bill Gates . I think it is a good thing for a teenager to learn that.

Oh yes, it was certainly a little extreme! I daresay most bursary recipients scrape by on perfectly average salaries.

But I hope articles like this are seen by people who truly believe it's out of their reach. There's no point waiting for the next government to magically reform education for today's 8 year old.

Yes happygardening another vote for you staying. Also, peteneras is projecting hugely - that comment about being sour because of not getting in was so massively ironic I'm not sure the word ironic does it justice :)

Peteneras has said gitty things in the past. Do not allow him to dictate your actions.

HG there's a general consensus here and the other thread. You might be successful in cold turkeying from mumsnet but you would be very much missed.

Surely peteneras is a mum not a dad ?

They are only words on a screen, happy. Stay. Please.

Here's some music about words:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgl7QV8ACjU

To be balanced, this is great too

www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_nYr8AsKcE

peteneras I have a good authority from someone who actually knows him, a MNetter who used to post regularly on here, is a dad.
For someone to suggest that they can find out if my DS applied to Eton and failed to get a place therefore my views on it are sour grapes I find rather offensive for some reason. Obviously as MN is anonymous and they would not disclose my details it's bull shit although as Ive said I'm happy to PM them to him if he promises to come back having found that I'm was not lying and publicly admit on here that my DS never applied to Eton. I very much doubt he'll do that of course.
I don't like having my integrity questioned. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth and makes me think that these kind of forums are not something I wish to be involved in.

Disagreement is fine, it adds to the spice of life, I like to offer advise and help because I've received it off here, but questioning the integrity of someone you wouldn't know if they sat next to you in a restaurant that just not not done.

If peteneras is a man then the language he's used to women on here is even more offensive than I originally thought. But don't worry about him happygardening - you're taking the sleight too much to heart.

'My DS (24) came home for a week-end recently with a new girlfriend. She said that some character trait of his was "typically Etonian". He replied that he had been on this planet for roughly 1,200 weeks of which only 150 had been spent at Eton. She should blame me and DH, not Eton, for any defective nurturing in his childhood!'

Nice one grovel . I wonder what 'typically Etonian' meant...lol.

My DDs generalized view of Etonians is that they arrive at uni seriously incompetent with women, in that they tend to put them on a pedestal (figuratively speaking) which is a bit irritating, at least for equally bright girls.

Etonians are very spottable, though! My dd has learned how to pick them out in her first year at University- and she had only ever properly met 2 her own age before!

Ok maybe I was being a little bit defeatist with my poorest boy in the class comment but I do think you need to seriously consider your financial situation before becoming fixated on these schools.

No one so far has answered the question of whether a family with a combined income of 80 k are likely to receive any financial assistance. That to me is the key issue. Do you really think you can devote 35k+ of your 52 k take home income to schooling?

No one has answered because it's an unanswerable question. No two families with that income have exactly the same assets or outgoings - all of which might be taken into account by a bursar. It's not cut and dried. It will depend on each individual school's resources and how much they want your child.

annietheacrobat, I am not fixated at all. We are researching it in detail with the clear understanding that even if DS gets an offer, we can't go ahead without at least a 50 ish % busary. Even if that happens DS is in a good school, so no regrets.
About whether we qualify on our income, I suppose it comes down to numbers. Would a 50% bursary be of use to a family who take 35k home? So who can come on a 50% bursary - surely someone on a bit higher? Maybe I am wrong but will want to give it a shot .

I like the idea that the more you earn, the more likely you are to get a bursary.

The current Etonian parents I know are not scrimping for school fees - it is or it was small change.

Molio, You misunderstood me, I think. What I meant was - E or W give many 50ish % bursaries. If they offer that amount to someone who can't afford it even with that, the bursary would be slightly meaningless. They would need to offer higher. There was no implication of higher earning = better chance.
Also there is no need to point out that I am scrimping for paying fees. Even if I do so for my DC I will be glad - why the sarcasm?

I sort of get your last point Welshparent and you are right in that if you don't try you won't ever know. I just wanted to check that you weren't becoming too misty eyed over the talk of tailcoats.

There was absolutely no sarcasm WP - it's just a well used phrase. I'm nothing like as well off as you either, so £80,000 seems like a mint.

I understand your reasoning completely, it has a logic, but bursaries need to be offered in order of preference to the least well off.