Eton, Winchester etc. planning for the future

[WelshParent]

Dear All,

I am new to MN and this is my first post. So please be gentle with me if I do something wrong. I don't have one specific question but a bunch of related questions which I hope I can get some answers to.

OK, so we live in South Wales and DS is in yr3 at the moment at a local indie in Cardiff. It is a very good school but it is a full 3-18 type and produces very good A level results. DS is a bright kid and does lots of extra curricular activities including piano, tennis, swimming and ofcourse football. Teacher thinks that he is very good and is working at a level higher than expected.

Like many other parents we aspire for DS to be able to move to somewhere really good like Eton or Winchester. I have spent months and months reading about the admission procedures of each of those schools and some others like Harrow, Radley, Abingdon etc.

My first question is that if DS takes the pretest at Eton or Harrow and is offered a conditional place when time comes, I imagine they will want him to take CE. Now being in a 3-18 school he will not have been expressly prepared for CE. We do not have any good Prep school in S Wales, so that is not an option for us. Where would that leave us? Both of us spend a lot of time to guide him with his academics and would not have a problem preparing him for CE purely from a syllabus perspective but we do not have CE preparation experience. Would some private tutoring be enough over the normal school work (which is at quite a good level). What about subjects like Latin which may not be part of DS's school curriculum. Is dreaming of KS or Election a dream without being in a very good prep?

Secondly we are managing to afford school fees + other activities + uniform + childcare etc. of about 12k per annum as of now. We might be able to afford another 4-5k by really pushing ourselves. Now our total yearly take home is about 52k (gross of 79k) both working f/t. We do have some other commitments like financially supporting DH's mother, who lives abroad. So even though the 52k looks alright. We don't live too luxuriously at all, we do have a biggish house and pay a mortgage of about 1200. We don't have a huge lot of equity in it though. I know it is a speculative question but based on this are we likely to get a bursary if DS gets an offer or will our income work against us.

I will be ever so grateful for any replies.

Indrid calling me 'one of those' is phenomenally rude, whatever you mean. What exactly is 'one of those'?

I went to a London day school though.

Two things: firstly, as inaccuracy is inimical to my personal and professional pride I'd like to change have you spent all this time curling your lip on boarding school threads to have you spent all this time curling your lip at this boarding school thread ...

But secondly I would not be at all surprised to read later that Molio's account was hijacked overnight. It is not at all her usual style.

X'ed!

But summer I've just seen your totes hilarious, backhanded un-compliment regarding my lack of diplomatic skills ...

Zero my diplomatic skills are nil and I don't have your font of interesting info like grovel and Hakluyt.

Molio I said that I found your comment patronising, not anyone else's.

A PP tells me that you are lucky enough to live on the doorstep of an excellent state school, which many of us do not, yet you came onto the thread saying that we were all neurotic, that we would rather spend huge amounts of money on boarding school because we are incapable of amusing our own children, thus psychologically damaging them into the bargain - which is pretty breathtakingly rude BTW.

It's all a bit Marie Antoinette 'let them eat cake', and it's very common on these pro v anti boarding threads, and as I've got a raging toothache I'm not in the mood to let it go unchallenged.

Indrid you're putting words into my mouth which I didn't say. Toothache or not, calling someone 'one of those' is incredibly rude. I take it to mean that I'm ok jack etc but if you read my post some way back I think I said I could see the need in some circumstances for boarding. Geography, armed forces - a number of reasons (although of course some people move or leave the armed forces rather than board their kids). But there's no doubt that the extreme language used to claim that one school is superior to another is funny. It's just so incredibly immature. If commenting on the silliness of it is patronising according to you (not sure it's the right adjective), so be it. I've only responded at all because of the narrow assumption by ZFD that only those with kids currently at Eton/ Winchester etc know anything about them, as though their parents have no other connections or friends and live in a place where no other people reside, and the kids themselves have no other friends, and no professional person ever speaks to anyone other than another alumnus, and no other person has family who used to attend those schools. These schools aren't islands you know. And to impute words such as neurotic and claims about incompetent parenting and psychological damage is just strange, given that no such word was used or implied and no such claims were made.

Bad luck about the toothache though.

This boarding issue is one which is in the back of our minds all the time if we do end up sending DS to one of these schools. My feeling is that DS will probably cope well with boarding after a little while but then who knows. It is ourselves we worry about more. Our current life revolves around DS - his work, activities, birthday parties etc. and both of us so enjoy it so much. I suppose in 5-6 years time some of that will change even being at home. But it is his long term benefit that drives us to think of one of these schools which will ofcourse be boarding. To us sending him to a boarding is not the more important thing - it is the school that is more important but ofcourse boarding is a big part of that package. I take great encouragement from the number of parents here who are happy and their narrations of their DC being happy when boarding. I am amazed by how switched on boarders' parents on MN and probably generally are about their DC's learning and development. Nobody knows how each child will cope - so without actually having sent a DC it is impossible to know I suppose. But going by statistics I imagine most children adjust well. It is heartening to know that unlike in past times, there is a lot more parent child contact and exeat weekends these days.

Just out of interest how many times on average in a term do parents usually get to go to matches or concerts or get to take a child out for a meal beside the exeat weekends in Eton or Winchester? I understand Winchester try to avoid too much contact with parents.

Nonsense.

I very clearly said that your reference to boarding children not seeing their families for months at a time indicated that you know nothing about them. I would generally assume that most people have some up to date knowledge of 21st century boarding - from whatever source.

Just as it would be sensible for people not involved with boarding to assume that boarding families generally also have some knowledge and experience of day schools/state schools.

Here is your overnight post:

This is a very, very, very, very funny thread. What a lot of money so many of you have wasted, and what a lot of emotional energy too. So unrelaxed it's not true. Not one of the schools mentioned can trump the best states, although they can equal them of course, but they do remove the child from home in an entirely unnatural way for the modern world. Also, a DC's university peers are those who remain friends for life, far more so than their friends from school. So the quibbling is fairly pointless tbh. OP has of course been completely forgotten in this jostling for position.... Not that any of you are obvious winners, though some are clearly losers

I don't think anyone would struggle to infer that

words such as neurotic and claims about incompetent parenting and psychological damage

are very deliberately implied.

My response above was obvs not meant for you OP!

Brave decision, ancient. No chance of New College now!

ancient I agree, tradition is certainly not a reason to set sights on a boarding school. It is about suiting the DC and circumstances.
However although full boarding schools have a schedule that works for overseas parents, all of them have frequent exeats, most Sundays potential to go out and lots of events to attend if you and your DC are so inclined.

As most of us keep saying, boarding in most schools is not the same experience or environments as even 10 years ago.

If you suggest (gently) to the boarding boys that I know whether they would consider transferring back to a very good day school for sixth form (we've tried), there would n't be any takers (unless for academic reasons). Ditto the other way although possibly less so.
Girls are usually keener to leave their all girls schools boarding or day. Maybe because they are less creatures of habit than boys .

I think that is because most parents and DCs have got it more and less right to what is best suited to the DC -boarding or day

Welshparent - whilst you have you heart set on sending your DS to one of these schools I would be concerned about whether you can really afford it, even with a generous bursary.

Are you not worried about the possible negative consequences of your son being one of the 'poorer' children in his year?

So molio, do you tell all your dcs friends who went to boarding school that their parents committed them to an unnatural way of life and were incapable of providing fun for them? Or do you just do it within the security of an anonymous forum?

"So molio, do you tell all your dcs friends who went to boarding school that their parents committed them to an unnatural way of life and were incapable of providing fun for them? Or do you just do it within the security of an anonymous forum?"
I can't speak for molio, obviously, but what you say to people involved, particulary children, in real life is very different from what you say when asked to express an opinion. In this, as in many other circumstances.

True Hakluyt, just as what someone may write late at night when they've had too much to drink may be different to what they write the next morning when sober.

Grovel, founder is prob waiting to haunt me. He sounds like a seriously psychopathic chap.

Removed post because decided had given too much away about the Ancient Buchanans. A dead dodgy set.

It was such a lovely post ancientbuchanan.

ancient, I'm with Zero about your post (but quite understand why you pulled it). My BiL may have been in College with your DH (depends on how ancient you/your DH really are). He went on to New College.

summer, thank you.

Dapple you may need to re-read my posts a little more carefully in the clear light of day, when you're not too squiffy.

I'm less sure than others about ancientbuchanan's pulled post - it was rather emotional, and I'm not convinced that her alleged connections would do much to sway New College tutors these days. Well, hopefully not.

I can't speak for molio, obviously, but what you say to people involved, particulary children, in real life is very different from what you say when asked to express an opinion. In this, as in many other circumstances.

Hakluyt - i agree with your post above. I have frequently bit my lip. Luckily I am v happy with the choice (boarding) we have made for our son and so not too bothered about others' opinion. But it just does sometimes amuse me that some (and genuinely not saying you ) are quick to judge that if your child goes to boarding school it is a given that you don't love them etc etc. Hey Ho .

Gutted to have missed ancient's post - sounds rather interesting.

Thinking about exchanges of school experiences. In real life friends and acquaintances don't highlight why they think their DCs are getting a better education deal and experience than yours, especially if they have access to something that they think you have n't. In fact most would try to emphasise the positives of your DCs' schools. That is why second or third hand experience for 'school comparison' never really gives the whole picture.

Molio anecdotally somebody has one DC extremely happy and very high achieving in one of the 'very best' state schools, one that (I am pretty sure) trumps yours academically in all measurements and has a wonderful non-pressurised atmosphere and extracurricular programme.

However they also have a DC at Winchester and feel that there is just no comparison to the state school in what is offered and benefits that DC particularly for his personality, interests, talents and the diversity in his academic education. Neither DC wants to change, parents are impressed by both schools and both DCs may end with similar exam grades and university places but they judge that W has something unique that is worth paying for. They also feel that the diversity in the education and that overall experience can't be replicated confined to day school hours.
Just one view but a direct comparison of the best in the present (rather than the past).

"They also feel that the diversity in the education and that overall experience can't be replicated confined to day school hours."

However, it is disingenuous to suggest that there are no negatives to boarding at all. Boarding parents on here-(in my experience less so in RL)- are positively moony-like in their championing of the the experience. Sometimes, I suspect, because anything else doesn't bear thinking about. My personal view is that no amount of lectures about Renaissance Art would compensate for not spending time on a daily basis with somebody who loves you, or being part of "the give and take of family life". I don't know a single ex boarder who has not talked to a greater or lesser extent about having had to learn to hide their feelings from an early age. The best place to raise children is a family unit.

Hakluyt I agree with your first part, particularly in the past.
Re the second part, from my direct present day experience, it depends on the DC and their blend of personality, talents, circumstances etc etc (BTW lectures on Renaissance art are n't really part of the prominent advantages from my DS's viewpoint ).