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Why do some parents think private school at primary is a waste of money.... but are secretly saving for secondary?

735 replies

Tallandgracefulmum · 27/06/2014 23:55

AIBU as my little one is starting prep school in Sept. I was asked by a friend at DD's nursery my plans, said private all the way and was told I would be wasting my money and should save it for secondary when it matters.

I hate this ..most parents I know would send kids private all the way through but cannot afford it so are saving for secondary. But to be honets if your not used to paying shed loads monthly for schooling, you will not suddently 7 years later ( and higher fees) start doing it for secondary.

What some people don't seem to get is that some parents value educational experience over material possessions or fancy homes. This friend in question said she will use the money she saves to provide education experiences for her children and give them a lump sum for uni.

My thoughts are she just can't afford it and wants to make me feel bad for spending my hard earned money.

How many parents actually compare a range of private school fees, then calculate how much it would cost to send one child then save the relevant monthly amount ready to give each off spring at 18? Doesn't happen. What's wrong in providing the best educational experience you can afford for your kids without others constantly telling me I am wasting my money.

FWIW I can understand private school bashers who hate all forms of private schooling, but not those who bash primary but would send kids to secondary in a heartbeat!

OP posts:
campingfilth · 29/06/2014 11:24

I've skipped bits, very sorry about that, but I am slightly offended that you seem to think we all should be working ourselves to the bone to put our children through private school because your parents did and if we don;t we don't value education and aren't doing our best for our children.

I work as a nurse in shifts, I rarely spend any money on myself and yet I still would not be able to send my child to private school. Yes we go on holidays but frankly giving them up would make no difference to the £7000-£25,000 school fees around here. I think you are very out of touch with living costs now and when your parents were putting you through private school. I could probably work more hours than my 40 hours week already but then my child would not see me and therefore would suffer.

Your idea of what a person should be before they are of any value or successful is wrong. You seem very possession orientated despite saying you go without and consider those who do the working class jobs as somehow failing. Not everyone wants to be a high flyer, not everyone wants a huge house and expensive holidays. Some people value an uncomplicated life with less stress and more fun.

JaneParker · 29/06/2014 11:26

camping when you were a teenager why did you choose to be a nurse a rather than say a surgeon? You must have known the difference in ability to fund school fees depend on careers. Was it because one required harder work and better exam results than the other?

Tallandgracefulmum · 29/06/2014 11:28

Retropear

The 100k worth list, may not be worth it to you, fine whats the problem.

But it may just be worth it to someone else.
Why do some people spend 30 quid on shopping in Primark and other spend 100 quid on Zara 9 for example) and some spend 300 quid in John Lewis ( for example), preference, and avaliable cash.

Some may not afford Zara and John Lewis but aspire to it and therefore look for used items in the charity shops or on ebay.

OP posts:
Tallandgracefulmum · 29/06/2014 11:31

Jinsei
If you have done the work, then why the need to know more?

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happygardening · 29/06/2014 11:34

I agree with Tall about the number of male teachers at the "top/elite" prep over 70% of the staff were male (it was coed) I think this important for boys in particular and I think research shows then same although I could be wrong.
I'm not sure about young female teachers (not bothered about the unmarried bit). As a mother and in my job I have at times been stunned by comments made by young teachers who clearly don't have children of their own (in both sectors), and in fact a few years ago I met a teacher who I personally couldn't stand who was the reception teacher at the prep school whose nursery DS1 briefly attended she admitted that she now cringes at some of the things she expected of and said to the children and parents in her pre children days.
I'm also slightly sceptical about this obsession with small classes DS's prep had classes no bigger than 12 I can see for younger children it might be good and languages, those who are significantly less able and those with specific problems behavioural SEN etcbut I'm yet to be convinced that tiny classes are essential for all.

teacherwith2kids · 29/06/2014 11:35

I agree with happygardening - but perhaps represent the other side of the coin.

There are no top prep schools nearby. The private primaries / prep schools offer nothing - except for sport, which is also widely available in the community, so e.g. my DS plays cricket at the same club as many of the private school boys - which the state primaries + a few extra curricular activities don't. The state secondaries, equally, obtain better GCSE and AS-level results than the local privates. Why pay?

However, if I had access to some of the rally top privates, both prep and senior, that would change the equation. There is nothing within a 20 mile commute that is worth paying for over and above the 5 minute waalk primary and the 25 minute walk comp.

RufusTheReindeer · 29/06/2014 11:36

jane

That seems a bit rude!

Ok not seems. Is rude

Tallandgracefulmum · 29/06/2014 11:37

Dont' forget Sunnindale :)

OP posts:
Tallandgracefulmum · 29/06/2014 11:38

But happy, some of run of the mill prep schools still have pupils gaining more elite university places than higher performing state schools.

OP posts:
teacherwith2kids · 29/06/2014 11:39

Rufus, Jane is, I think, the new name for a long-standing supporter of private schools and former island-owner, who had a reputation for a somewhat abrasive posting style!

(Apologies, Jane, if I am wrong)

WhereTheWildlingsAre · 29/06/2014 11:43

Is she back?? Please tell me she is back!! I've missed those comically insulting posts

happygardening · 29/06/2014 11:46

teacher that was my thought as well apologies than if I'm wrong. If I'm right why change your name but continue writing the same slightly inflammatory although admittedly pretty unique comments? (Just curious)

Tallandgracefulmum · 29/06/2014 11:58

Camping, don't be offended. No one needs to work to the bone to afford private education or even to pay for a heavy mortgage in nice affulent catchment.

Just some people may work to the bone to afford private, nothing wrong in that.
For what it is worth, not everyone wants to be a high flyer yes, but nowaway days it not easy the young generation, and if you have certain aspirations for your life, family, god willing, just might take that little extra sacrifice.. what ever that may be.

OP posts:
RufusTheReindeer · 29/06/2014 11:58

teacher

I thought it was but like happy I don't really understand the name change but post like a twat thing

happygardening · 29/06/2014 11:59

teacher you're agreeing with me all I need now is seeker under her new nickname to come along and agree with me then my weekend will be made!
Incidentally Retro where are you I'm dying to here how your DS's are at a primary offering the same depth and breadth my DS's "top" prep offers.

merrymouse · 29/06/2014 12:20

If you think your friends are being snipey because of jealousy and there is no possibility that they are just voicing a perfectly reasonable opinion, maybe get some new friends.

teacherwith2kids · 29/06/2014 12:23

Happy, I agree with you that a VERY few top private schools offer something that no state school can provide - but equally, that means that the vast majority of private schools don't. It HAS to be a school by school, not sector vs sector, discussion.

merrymouse · 29/06/2014 12:29

I would also say that as much as people from private schools are disproportionately represented at Oxbridge, they are also disproportionately represented in the "daddy gave me some money to set up a landscaping gardening business and let's me live in the London flat and pays me an allowance" part of the community.

Private schools do well with what they have - pre-screened, generally affluent children. They are often very pleasant places to go to school and sometimes they provide the best fit for a particular child. However they don't work miracles.

happygardening · 29/06/2014 12:39

No merry you right contrary to what many people think independents cannot turn an average child into a rocket scientist. Many years ago I read an article about SPS it had come top of the league tables. As the article pointed out if you select the very brightest children from a huge pool of those living in London and the Home Counties, provide them with stunning facilities, extraordinarily dedicated teachers, and most children will have the right type of parent supporting then then if you're not sitting at the top of the league table then your clearly doing something wrong.
Or as my old dressage coach used to say it's just as much of an achievement to take an average rider (me) with a screw loose average horse, training in a field after work and get them to compete at a level beyond your or their expectations, as it is to take a stunningly talented rider, with a telephone number priced horse loads of time and perfect facilities to the Olympic games.

happygardening · 29/06/2014 12:40

Forget the No at the beginning of my last post don't know why I wrote that.

Retropear · 29/06/2014 12:42

Hmm bar the Bunsen burners and Latin(which you could get a tutor for) sorry we pretty much have all that.Teachers go to the same colleges so we have maths and English experts too.Loads of sports(too much),own swimming pool, vegetable garden,grounds,masses if extra curricular activities,my dc have top music lessons privately......

Glad we have Sats.My friend who has a child at a top prep wishes they did as her dc is leaving year 5 still not having learnt her tables or having covered half what my dc have.Sats would have kept her informed and her dc's teachers on track.

Not seeing anything on your list I'd pay £100k for.Sorry.

Jinsei · 29/06/2014 12:45

Thanks happy for outlining what you liked about your dc's top prep. Interesting that you put such a lot of weight on having specialist teachers for different subjects. I can see that the prep model might be attractive if you think that's important. I guess what you describe is a very traditional approach to education, which is fair enough if you want that kind of thing, but it's not what I would look for.

Personally, at primary level, I put much more weight on teaching skills than specialist knowledge in a particular subject area, and also on the children having the opportunity to build up a strong relationship with one particular teacher who gets to know the children really well as individuals - separate teachers for every subject was one of the things I specifically didn't like about our nearest prep, because I think that overview is lost.

Also, I loved the interdisciplinary nature of the curriculum at dd's primary school, and the clever way in which the different subjects are woven together around a common theme - this is something that dd's school is especially good at, and it's a constant source of amazement to me to see how effectively they do this. I think it's really exciting for kids to find connections between subjects and I think dd learns much better in this way. The school does have specialist teachers for some subjects - art, PE, French and music - but I don't think it's necessary at primary level, and for me, the cross-curricular thing is much more important, if it's done well.

The children are still exposed to specialists in various curriculum areas where appropriate. For example, the local university does a science day for the school once a term (for KS2), and at other times during the year, the brighter kids get to go and do stuff in the university labs, which is a big adventure for them. I think the partnership with the local university is hugely valuable, and at least half of the parents happen to work at the university, there is a very high level of interaction in various different fields.

They also have a range of interesting visitors coming in to the school from different professional backgrounds - for example, this year dd's class has had a professional illustrator who came in to do a masterclass and to help the children illustrate some stories that they had written. One of the archaeologists involved in finding the remains of Richard III came in to talk about his work, and as they are currently focussing on persuasive writing, they've recently had someone in who writes advertising copy to work with the children on that. I really like this balance of "expert" input from time to time, alongside the consistency of the relationship with the main class teacher, and this would be my preference at primary level.

I will concede that DD hasn't had the opportunity to learn Latin, but she did have the opportunity to learn Mandarin (from a qualified native speaking teacher) in a free after school club for 2x1.5 hours a week, and while I know lots of people emphasise Latin, I think that' modern foreign languages are more useful in this day and age. DD did do Mandarin for a while and learnt quite a bit, but eventually she had to quit because she wanted to prioritise her time for more dance. The French that they do in school is less satisfactory if I'm entirely honest - the teacher is very good, but they only do a couple of sessions a week so their learning is limited. However, as dd is trilingual anyway, I'm less concerned about this.

Extra-curricular activities are rich and varied. I've already mentioned the Mandarin classes. Then dd had the opportunity this year to work with a former west end choreographer who put together a dance festival for local schools. Obviously she does lots of dancing outside of school anyway, but it was good for others to have this opportunity. The school choir competes at various events and recently made a recording at a professional studio as part of an international recording project. There are loads of sporting opportunities at various different levels, including lots of competitive sport with other schools, but I know less about this as dd is only involved in the after school recreational sports clubs. My neighbour's child is very sporty, however, and competes in gymnastics at a national level. She does most of her training outside of school now, but she started off in an after school club.

PE is only twice a week at dd's school, but as I've already said, there are lots of lunchtime and after school clubs, and most kids participate in at least some of these - even quite unsporty kids like my dd does a couple, so I reckon the sports teacher must have some kind of magic about him! Games every afternoon sounds like rather a waste of time to me if I'm honest, especially 2.5 hours of cricket three times a week! Shock Fine if that's an extra-curricular activity, but dd does so much physical activity outside of school with her dancing that I'd prefer the time in school to be spent on other things.

DD has had many other opportunities this year too - watching an RSC production of a Shakespeare play and talking to the actors afterwards, climbing and canoeing on a residential trip, learning about schools in other countries by communicating with partner schools overseas, participating in a really interesting inter school maths project for so called "gifted and talented" children where they've had the opportunity to apply their maths skills to real-life problems. There are too many examples to list here.

For me, a broad education at primary age is about not really about having lots of separate subjects taught by people who have specialised in those particular areas, but rather learning about a broad range of things from a broad range of people and starting to make connections between them. The kind of education that you describe sounds quite similar to what I saw when I went to our local private prep (though I'm not convinced that that's a "top" one) and that is definitely not what I would choose for my dd. But I appreciate that you might not want what I have chosen either. I guess we all have different values and priorities.

The one thing I will concede is that the facilities do tend to be better in private schools, obviously because the funds allow it. Our school doesn't do too badly, as we have a very active PTA and a generous group of parents; we also have access to facilities at the university such as science labs, auditoriums and an Olympic sized swimming pool! However, the school itself doesn't have the facilities that I would expect at a private school. I guess it's for individual parents to decide how important that is.

happygardening · 29/06/2014 12:48

I agree teacher but retro and others clearly stated that their primary was offering the same depth and breadth of curriculum as a "VERY few top private schools can offer." She didn't qualify her statement by stating that she accepted that a small handful are able to offer more.

Jinsei · 29/06/2014 12:48

camping when you were a teenager why did you choose to be a nurse a rather than say a surgeon? You must have known the difference in ability to fund school fees depend on careers. Was it because one required harder work and better exam results than the other?

That's such a funny post, xenia! You know, some of us really aren't worried about the ability to pay school fees when choosing our careers. I would be so sad if I thought my dd was under such pressure - I have always told her to choose a path that makes her happy.

Jinsei · 29/06/2014 12:50

tall, I don't need to know more, I am merely interested in what it is that others value so highly. I can see that specialist subject teaching features quite highly for you and happy. That's fair enough, just a question of different views about what is important, I guess.