thinking of sending ds to a private school - advise needed please!!!!!

[jinna]

my ds is 5 and has been in a state school since reception - we are now thinking to send him to a private prep school - the reasoning being that hopefully he will be able to get into a good grammar school later on . This grammar is heavilky oversubscribed and we feel the only way he would be able to get in is if he gets a lot of support. He is doing well at the state school but with more personal attention at the prep school he should progress well.

My husband and myself went to see the prep school and were surprised and the differences in the schools - the class size was smaller and the sports facilities were great - but the atmosphere felt very disciplined and formal - is this the norm for prep schools - we want our DS to do well but don't want him to lose his personality.

Also the prep school has its own curriculum and also have their own inspection - how do you tell if they are teaching to the right standard. We have no experience of private education and independent schools - so please any advise would be great

My 13-yo niece just got expelled from a private school because she confessed to the head teacher that she had suicidal feelings. Out on her ear, because he didn't want her doing anything to herself on his patch. This is not to re-enter the private-state debate, but wasn't a great advertisement for the fee-paying system, was it?

The G&T label is I believe fairly nrew, dare I say a Labour government education invention. Ten years ago, as governors our special needs policies always referred to 'very able' children and we were only referring to one or two in each class.

One of the gifted children ( knew all the latin names of about 3000 flowers at 4 years old, just for starters) we had took all the top scholarships at the local independent schools, and then dropped out of school at 14, unable to cope any longer. He then had private tutors and collected a few GCSE's but is doing something now that makes him very happy and that he doesn't need any qualifications for, using just his voice ( like his dad on TV) can't say who he is for obvious reasons.

I think the title G&T does put pressure on parents and the child as the expectation to perform is there and the child feels failure if he does not match those expectations all the time, as in this case.

DD's independent school( in the top 30) has it's fair share of behaviour problems, and I am seriously shocked that some of the girls behaviour from reports given to me by DD, the head says it is down to her to deal with it, and uses expulsion as a last resort.

DS's school was exposed in the News of the World a few weeks ago as being a drug dealing haven, now nicknamed 'St Cannabis College' the head does not expel unless it is really really serious. They write and inform all parents of what is going on and what will be done about it.

I think sometimes that the behaviour in private school is far worse than some state schools, in that they do far more outrageous things, rather than general hooliganism that you get at our local state secondary schools.

There has been drug dealing in my state school several times alibubbles and lots of smoking grass etc on the school grounds. I've worked in schools where fireworks have been set off on ground level in playgrounds and where kids carry knives. Thisschool had security guards and now has a permanent policeman there.
I've been threatened several times even when pregnant and these kids have only been temporarily excluded and i have to teach them again and I dont see this as hooliganism, much worse.

jampot - snap. Had exactly the same experience at school.

For the teachers who teach in the state sector but send, or will send, their children to private schools; if one of your pupils knew about that, how would you explain it to them?

My private life is my buisness. I tend not to tell the kids anything about mt personal life. It also helps if you don't live in the catchment area, you are less likley to get your house attacked by vandels and your car egged and floured (as has happened to other teachers in the school).

As it happened on of the kids in my form group is going to move to a private bording school. None of the kids were in the slightest bit affected, at least not in regestration time.

Rebehavour we have had kids attack members of staff as well as other kids. One boy has just returned from 2 weeks exclusion, be broke another boy's jaw in school.

I agree with hmb and would not disclose details of my personal life to the kids especially as I do live in the catchment area. Not many teachers I know do and I wouldnt but ds is at school in this area.
I agree also that I cant see that any of the kids would be bothered where my own kids went to school.

just a quick question - calling mumsnet people who live in the borough of Bexley or Bromley: What support do your children get for the 11+? and do they go to a private or state primary?

As Bexley and Bromley boroughs have a grammar system, it's possible state primaries there do more for 11+ entry than in my borough.

As the others have said, my private life is my own business. I tend not to tell my pupils much about my life - much easier that why I have found. My pupils already know I live in a house that is worth quite a bit more than many of they do, they know I drive a car which is worth more than the house's they live in and they know my husband earns a lot more money than many of their parents do. They also know I come from not far from where they live now, and grew up in similar kind of houses and incomes. It doesn't bother them in the slightest, or doesn't appear to. Many of them have no desire to move out of the area or go to uni, etc. It isn't what they wish for themselves, or their familiies wish for them. They are not jealous or envious, they just see it as one of those things. TBH when it comes to things like that the kids are teach are just fine.

Earlier someone mentioned about G&T and special needs. Within education G&T is within the Special EDUCATIONAL needs departments/policies, and as far as I am aware ALL schools are supposed to have a policy regarding their G&T (or in our school More able and talented) pupils. If they do not then they are failing some of their pupils and OFSTED will be pick them up on this.

BTW I was the teacher who said I had 10 such pupils in my class. These were 10 pupils within the year group who were deemed to be more able at ICT than the rest of the year group. Maybe not at other subjects (all though some were) and other G&T/MA&T pupils were this for other subjects and not ICT.

Hulababy, I reminded the primary school where i was a governor that special needs meant both ends of the spectrum and it was one that I would always ask about when interviewing prospective teachers, - "What is you understanding of a special needs policy"

Many schools are picked up on failing to differentiate for more able pupils and having a policy on what provision is madefor more able pupils and how it is applied.

Tigermoth, as you know we are Bexley/Greenwich borders. In our local area places at one of the Bexley primary schools are highly prized because the children are prepared for Bexley 11+ transfer if the parents and children wish it and don't usually need any extra coaching. As far as I can see, that is the main difference between our two nearest state primaries - both are big, bustling and well-regarded, with good SATs and Ofsted. The Greenwich one is lower in the league tables but still good and improving year on year recently. Most parents who apply to both choose the Bexley school if they get places at both.

Tigermoth
There are only two grammer schools in Bromley and the competition is fierce. My chidren's school do not offer any additional support to children who are taking the tests. I imagine it would be useful for the child to have some private coaching in exam technique. I know that the private schools coach like mad for it. However you still need to be very able to maintain a high standard once in.

Hulababy- what kind of car do you drive???

hercules - until this weekend I had the top spec Audi A4 cabriolet sport. Just changed it following my decision to quit and do supply to a VW Golf (still top spec) - but pnly a temporary car until the new GTI is launched at the end of the year. So not amazingly expensive but even this new one is worth more than some of the houses round here

Tigermoth, as it may have been my post that got you worrying, the situation with 11+ coaching her is:
at the private preps 11+ type work is done all the way through the school (at an age appropriate level). Before the tests the kids take papers home and work on areas they struggle with. Crucially, the kids do end of year exams in formal conditions from Y3 onwards (i.e. desks in rows in the hall) so on the day there is no big shock. Everything is done within the normal school day/normal homework load.

the primaries that are known for high 11+ pass rates have after school sessions and send the kids home with additional homework. These schools tend to have exceptional SATs scores but it is generally felt that this is because they tend not to "bother" much with art/sport etc.

Is it today hulababy?

hercules - the interview you mean? It was to be tomorrow but I have just phoned up to withdraw. I have been chatting to DH over the weekend and it just isn't what I want, too many factors outweighing the benefits of a permanent post:

• OFSTED must be due as last one in 2000 (just had way too much inspections recently)
• want lots of A level and hate doing it
• PC equipment not as good asat current school (!)
• still a 40 minute drive at rush hour
• want someone to un ICT clubs before and after school each day

And I think I just need a break from the ties of a permanent post for a year - time out to redress all the issues I currently have with teaching Been really looking forward to tewaching in the prisons too which I can't do if I take on this job.

Good decision. If I dont get a partime contract ie finsih at 12.30 (yipee) then after 13 weeks pay back of maternity I will def do supply. I really cant imagine being able to cope full time with 2 kids.

Going back to when I went to secondary school there was a girl in my class who had a drug user for a boyfriend and she sold cannabis in the school loos. She was one of my best friends and one of the more able kids too, very very mature for her age though, was at pubs weekends and nights etc, she came from exclusive "media known" family too and her brothers were all at private schools. (this was in NZ) she passed school and went to uni, she is now a university lecturer, married down (?? in her families words) put her background behind her and is pretty "normal" now.
I think with regards to drugs you have to be pretty naive to think they only will appear at failing comprehensives... Money will not prevent kids from accessing drugs, nor will the school they attend...

I do feel much better after phoning up - was right decision; must remember to let my school know I will now be in tomorrow though as I had booked day off!

I just couldn't do full time at all hercules - and I only have one DD. Doing 0.6 has been a good balance and that is what I will hope to continue doing next year.

bk - re Zoe Williams' piece - it doesn't read as if written by a parent (so she probably isn't one) and I think, from the penultimate para, that she is really talking about public schools, specifically Eton (she does say public at one point) so the old school tie bit does apply. Maybe she has someone specific in mind - the piece seems a bit pointless otherwise.

I don't know any public school people to play parlour games with - is she right about that?

As someone who went to more than one well-known public school, i'd say she was wrong. But then I went to schools at the "academic" end of the spectrum rather than brand-name school that takes anyone who can pay. also, the schools that used to be about "old school tie" and education didn't matter have had to change their focus recently so I don't think judging schools on experiences with her 30-something friends is quite right.