The Trinity Whitgift Dulwich 11+/10+ thread 2014 pt2

[LadyMuck]

Anyone still out there?!

From Lucid's post- Any thoughts about W for less sporty boys? Or boys that like sport but are average performers? It seems to me that there is so much going on that there is a niche for all. Have seen a previous thread about this but would value any comments

Lovely post Keepingittogether and an interesting one too. At least you know you tried your best by negotiating a bit more schol. Sounds like your DS was one of the lucky few to be awarded. My DS too plays at academy level and I guess one of my worries IF he went to W would be whether he would actually get to represent the school in the sports teams or if all the places went to the scholars. That would be very frustrating for a talented, sport loving boy. Has anyone any thought on this?

No real knowledge of W so cannot provide any factual content. However, pooziepuzzle surely W will want to win? Therefore, always send out the best team? I have a friend whose DS became good at rugby. He always played in the A team, was never a scholar if that helps?

Hopepful, lucid, there are plenty of non sporty boys it is a large School and not everyone is in a team or forced to be in a team. But there is opportunity for everyone to play a sport from chess to rugby if they want to. The teams are a little cutthroat I think and A squads are generally formed from the best in each sport but boys can be dropped or promoted based on performance. And yes they have boys who are at the top of thier game, European champions at their age, amazing musicians, actors, and academics but I find these boys are inspirational rather than threatening. My DS just seems proud to have these boys around and watch them do their thing, and be part of the school.
I think the sports emphasis exists also because W have to promote the fantastic sports facilities, when thenew science facilities and( bio dome?) are built no doubt there will be a push to take in the most talented young scientists and promote these facilities also, much like the current flavour of the month the boarding facilities.
There are plenty of co curricular clubs for non sporty boys, from languages to robotics to debating etc.

Poozie - in answer to your question teams are generally selected on ability not on scholarships, not all boys in teams have scholarships but I think all boys with scholarships are in teams , IYKWIM. If your Ds is of a good standard he will be selected for a team and if he is better than a boy with a scholarship he will take the place of that boy. There are several teams for most sports so plenty of opportunity to play in a team.

Well said burnt, couldn't have put it better.

Mrs. s well done to your DS. They do seem to just take things in their stride at that age, and not get too excited ( outwardly, anyway), about these things. I think they have so much going on that they don't dwell on things too much... I'm sure he is proud of his achievements.

We found it difficult last year choosing between T & W, they are both excellent schools. In the end we went with DS's preference ( he still thinks T is great, even though he is a W boy now..... He has a good number of friends there and no doubt will have more after this year). So the rivalry sometimes, is just for show ( lol!)...

Thanks hipster and burntoutdad, sounds good

Just a short note to say that this thread has been an invaluable source of information and support to someone stepping for the very first time into the world of 10+/11+. Coming from a state background and attempting the 10+ for Yr 6 entry, we had absolutely no help from the school so this thread has been a life saver!
We are in the lucky position of DS having an offer from T and CLSB and will be opting for the CLSB place.
Best wishes to all the DPs and DCs and many thanks to all who have posted here and helped!

Pooglie, thanks for your reply. My daughter has no interest in private at the moment (although that could all change), it's more that moving could take her chance of a place at the local academy away that is a concern.

It makes my stomach knot to think that I could be taking away something significant from ds by not sending him to his well-earned place at DC. I'd be really interested in hearing if anyone has some feedback on the value-added elements to private education. What exactly do you get there that you don't in state education apart from small classes?

Alice T uniform price list All available from Hewitts in Croydon. Really only blazer, tie and sports kit required from there. I only bothered with one set of white shorts. Cheap trainers/football boots from Sports Direct. Haven't needed cricket whites so far...
So far have found T very nurturing - particularly for DS who started in Y6. All the staff a very approachable and caring, and really know your DS very quickly.
Also lots of opportunities for all. My DS who really wasn't a sportsman when he started soon chose to go to extra rugby training, and has been playing regularly in the D team this year! Still isn't really a sportsman but has at least been given the opportunity!!

Lucidnonsense I too am keen to hear about the journey to W. We are about a ten min drive to Clapham Junction or the nearest school bus stop so the journey is a real issue. We will probably move after a year as DD starts at Epsom in 2015, however DS still has to travel for two hours next year. I am loathed to turn down his scholarship but the more I look at it the less sensible it seems. I can't have the whole family revolving around getting him to Croydon.

DS and I did list of pros and cons for both his school options and the only 'con' for W was distance. I know he is going to be disappointed if he doesn't go but I am becoming more realistic after a week of deliberating.

Came on to congratulate Master Steptoe! What an awesome journey that young lad has been on - his mother too! He can definitely walk into DC with his head up high!

I suspect the answer to why private is just a whole new thread in itself really. For me it is all down to the staff:pupil ratios. If he meets just a few teachers who truly inspire him along the way then it will impact his life significantly. I can name my inspirational teachers (and am heading to a retirement do for one of them this weekend), dh his. I'm pretty sure that ds has already met one of his! [Ds was level 3A for writing a year ago in year 5, and now enters writing competitions for fun]. Not every member of staff will be inspirational for every boy, but it only needs two or three, and statistically they're more likely to have such an encounter in a school with more teachers. Boarding increases these teacher-pupil opportunities as well, which was part of our personal decision to look at boarding (which I know is not for everyone and will definitely pull us off-thread). I know that state schools have truly admirable teachers too, but the ratios seem much thinner, and they seem less involved with the clubs and co-curricular.

Its a very personal decision as to whether or what you choose to give up in order to pay the fees, but if you do, you will be standing alongside parents who are making a similar decision.

A final thought to all those weighing up decisions. The grammar results are out on Monday, and another 400 odd boys places open up. No one quite knows how places will fall, given just geographically the numbers sitting were so far spread If you add together the total number of year 6 boys in the London boroughs of Sutton, Merton, Kingston and Croydon, then there are roughly 4,500 boys of all abilities. For over 2,200 to sit the Sutton Selective Eligibility test would mean that almost half of all boys in these boroughs tried it. But in reality it would be far less than that and many came from much much further afield, so of those who eventually passed there will be many heading elsewhere. For those who can only look at W or T with some form of fee remission I would urge you to hold on until grammar offers are in. It may yet be the case that W/T have held some offers backs until they know who jumps for a grammar instead. And for those who made interview but were still disappointed, again I would get in contact late next week.

Eeek - I'm missing a week - Monday week I meant!

I disagree with Basildonbond's comments about T.

In all honesty, I don't think there is anything to choose between them. They leapfrog each other in academic results, they beat each other at sports, both have high quality musicians. I very much doubt you would be disappointed with whichever choice you made between them. Had I chosen differently, I have no doubt that I would be equally happy with W and I believe DSs would both be enjoying it as much as they do T.

Don't forget that Trinity has chickens though.

And, at the moment, a free lake.

Oh, and the journey between East Croydon and T is a piece of cake.

dippingbackin I know lots of boys travel to W from the Junction or Wandsworth Common. Is there a bus he can get to either station? Guess if relying on you to drive every day that could be an issue.

Lucidnonsense as pooziepuzzle said lots of boys travel from clapham junction to whitgift and there is a good bus service to the Clapham junction station from surrounding areas.

I think both schools also try some form of transport shadowing/mentoring at least for the first half term whilst boys find their feet. So T had someone at East Croydon to put boys on the right buses, and I thought W had someone at CJ? I could be making that up of course, but it is worth asking the schools. The first few weeks are the trickiest and after that you'll be wondering what you were ever worrying about.

You misunderstood me soup, what I meant was that everyone thinks T is all soft and fluffy and W incredibly cut-throat full of alpha males when in reality they're much more similar than reputations would have you believe

However I know (from personal experience with both schools) that W deal with learning difficulties better which would seem to fly in the face of their supposed win at all costs attitude

Both schools would be happy for you to arrange another visit next week. I think that you end up looking at schools differently once you know you have an offer, and often one or other school will seem like home. The vast majority of parents are very happy with their choice once they get past the admissions process. I've found very few who regret their choice and wish instead they have gone to the other. With the introduction of girls into Trinity 6th form there are now more parents who have direct current experience of both schools.

I don't think I misunderstood, no. Your statement was quite clear.

Have to agree with basildon t have a much smaller unit for learning support then w so therefore tend not to take on many who will need this support. W seem determined not to let ds's fall behind and provide all the support that may be needed to ensure this. It is possible that this is a recent development to avoid issues at GCSE or A level I really can't say but if anyone cares to look into the sens unit at w they will more then likely be very impressed. So far we haven't needed this but very reassuring to know it is there and available and included in the cost. burnt and hott hello and as usual very informative posts which sum things up so well. Every school being discussed and considered is a great school so you cannot make a wrong decision.
mrs s what a little star your ds is . Well done to him and to you.
lucid and hopeful if you go to w homepage and view term calendar early pages show the co curricular activities - just as many non sport as sport and open to all unless otherwise stated (ie specific year groups). W make it very clear that to gain the best from the school you should aim to do at least 3 of these and the range of subjects ensures something for everyone.
poozie with ds at academy level inconceivable that he wouldnt be in good teams and more then likely will find any number of other sports to excel at. Scholars can't be good at everything!

Finally and yes I have had a glass of it being Friday night and all - I have known people devoted to t who chose W because they felt it would encourage a shy ds to be more assertive and it has worked. They do not become arrogant but become more self confidant about their own abilities.

Thank you for the responses. It seems there is not very much between W and T, which makes me question how I can justify the additional 4K per year for W. If it's just paying for the peacocks and purple capes, I could buy T some peacocks for a fraction of that :)

Lucid, I suspect that from what you have written, you're probably making the right decision for you. But I don't think that the difference is £4k pa - don't compare W's maximum fee for next year with T's fees this year. The gap is currently larger than has been the norm, but I thought Mr B was only promising to keep fees at least 10% below W. The initial kit out at W is an easy £500-600, true, but you don't do that every year IME, though there will be a couple of spurts along the way when you wonder whether they've been sleeping in manure or something. IME footwear is a killer but you have that at any school, and you may just need to get firm about whether they really need shoes for each and every sport.

W fees include some trips eg Lake Garda.

Some of the opportunities at W are competitive eg the bilingual program, certain sports teams and training, some trips etc (again, no different from other similar schools). I think that it is important to know how many boys are likely to be in the yeargroup at W. The size of the yeargroup has varied from 165 to 210, and I think that there are correspondingly more opportunities available to those in the smaller yeargroups.

The blasted peacocks... if it is any consolation please spare a thought for Whitgift teachers who run into the same issues any time they turn up for a conference or a job interview "Isn't that the one with the peacocks?"

*Seeline, thank you so much for the price list. The uniform is reasonable, not too sure about the sports kit. Do we need to buy every single item on the sports list?

MrsSteptoe, well done Master Steptoe, clever lad! However, credit should also go to you for the journey you have been through.

It could just be my children, but I have always found that the secondhand shop is fine for sports uniform. Some of these items are worn relatively little by the less sporty, and after a few washes it can be hard to differentiate between a rugby top that has been bought new or from the secondhand sale. Works both ways - Ds1 plays sport daily and I use the secondhand stuff to stop the constant laundry and lots of younger siblings wear their older siblings stuff. The PTA people who run the sales are usually v helpful and can usually point you in the direction of the stuff which is best to get.

There is a lot of sports kit though. It is still a lot less than at some schools, but that doesn't really help.