The Trinity Whitgift Dulwich 11+/10+ thread 2014 pt2

[LadyMuck]

Anyone still out there?!

sounds like a tough day keepingittogether, tear in my eye for you too. hope it all works out for you and DS.

Keepingittogether - it does get scary sometimes realising what you are committing to financially but if you keep reminding yourself why you wanted to do it, what you hope your DS will achieve and how you think he will benefit it's easy to stay focused. It is a great school, I'm sure DS will love it!

Steptoe - so far extras have been uniform and sports kit, (quite expensive!) They need football boots, rugby boots, non marking trainers, sports bag, swimming bag, back pack, watch , pen etc. School bus, school meals are compulsory for lower first btw. Some of this may be covered if on bursary but don't know. Be prepared to lose a lot of bits and pieces , most comes back some doesn't!

keepingittogether - what a sincere, moving post. It is very similar to what we went through last year (although we are on full fees).
As I have posted before, it has had huge financial implications. For us it has been worth every sacrifice and every penny.
For many others it may not be and I fully respect that.
Wishing you and DS many happy and successful years at W.

burnoutdad good to read from you. It's taken me hours to catch up with you lot. I'm just amazed and disappointed at the same time. From putting down the figures for W is astonishing. The uniform, school bus and school meals will obviously come to at least £1k, making the fees for the 1st year £18k! . I guess the school is for parents who are not just small city flyers then, lol.
Their information is misleading because it's prompted single parent like me to applying the school hoping for a bursary. After having the foundation strip me naked and declare even a mole on my bum(not exactly that but you know what I mean), the school can still turn around and ask me to pay full fees?? Seriously, I'm hurt! And it's not the foundation because they confirmed that Ds was considered for one but the W decides who get these! I think I would have preferred it if they had come back and not offer anything at all.
Not that I'm having a dig at W but C'mon one has to really think if this is worth it. I've been following the league tables for the past years and can someone tell me where it really sits on the table? All we hear is sports Olympic Ch..... Was schooled there, etc. So in this case, I do agree with LadyMuck about trophy cardboard stacked up.
I have some of Ds' friends who joined W at 10+ and the parents like it there.
In terms of "culling", this is not good but as most parents here had said, it's known in most schools. There are children out there who have been heavily tutored and as time goes on, it will start to show, unless if the parents plan on doing so till Uni. I just think we all know deep inside what our DC's are are capable for, so whether paying £5k or £18k you still have to work with your child regardless, I.e, I didn't do NonVR growing up but now, I'm a champion at it! Lol. I hated Physics and Chemistry but it looks like I'm about to embark on that journey again and maybe this time it will be different!
W is still a good school and I wish all the best of luck to new and old parents. All Ds's have to be congratulated for their hard work.
Alice and anyone out there who will be turning down the offers based on finance! please have a loom at Cedars School in Croydon, it's a new school and from my understanding, the Head is ex Wallington Grammar. The fees is much less and it includes school uniform. I hear they are still taking students for this Sept. The reason for these threads are to help each other so please, make use of the information.
PS these are not facts but just opinions. Lol
Everyone has an opinion or fact, so please let's keep sharing as this might just help someone, it might not be everyone on here but definitely someone will benefit from it whether good or bad.

Btw, Ds has now got a schol and bursary at our 1st choice coed so I'm grateful.

I'm sorry you're feeling disappointed brownsugar but people can't really think that Whitgift could possibly provide bursaries to every child who wanted one? As it is they have one of the most generous bursary funds in the country so it seems a bit unfair that they're being slated when most schools don't offer a fraction of what they're paying out in scholarships and bursaries. A bursary isn't a right, it's a privilege.

I do think that unless you have a child currently at a particular school then anything you say about it is going to be hearsay. No school is going to suit every child, however high up it sits in the league tables. Ds1's experience of Whitgift has been nothing but positive but it wouldn't have been the best place for ds2 and he's happily ensconced elsewhere. Has it been worth it? Hard to tell really as we don't have a control ds1 to send off to a different school, but he has been very happy there and as we are lucky enough to be able to afford the fees without having to survive solely on beans on toast then it's been worth it for us

Thanks for the tips, Burntoutdad. We're actually bound for Alleyn's, Dulwich or Trinity (didn't sit Whitgift) but extras information is likely to be fairly common to all schools

montague DC is a school which will help your DS achieve his full potential whatever he's good at (even if it's not clear at this stage). There are few schools in South London that offer all the facilities + excellent sport + excellent music and arts + top notch academics in such beautiful surroundings. State can be great, but it depends on what's on offer to you. The biggest difference is class size. Is your child someone who is bright and self-motivated such that it won't matter what size class he's in? Will he learn and grab opportunities to do extracurricular activities anyway? Will the state option provide the same support to get into university?
DC are pretty generous with bursaries. Try ringing them to see if there is any chance of money off the fees.
DC is a fab school, however, if it means sacrificing the education of your dd, then is that too much pressure on your ds? Will it cause resentment in dd if she doesn't get the same educational opportunity and ends up at bog standard comp because older brother got to go to one of the best schools in the country?

MrsS extras at T have been manageable. My Ds is halfway through Y7 (but he started in Y6). The uniform is surprisingly reasonable - mainly because you can get shirts and trousers from high street shops, even jumpers don't have to be the logoed ones. The parents association also runs a very good second hand system with sales every term.
All students can have packed lunches.
A large number of boys use public transport for travel - the problem with the school bus is that it doesn't leave until 5.30 (to allow boys to stay to clubs) but if you're near the end of the run it can make getting home quite late. Boys can do homework in the library so don't have that when they get back....
There are a huge number of trips which can work out eye wateringly expensive - but they are optional. Our DS went away for a week's singing last year for about £250 which included accommodation, food and travel (UK) which I thought good value - of course skiing in the US is slightly more day trips for classwork have so far been very reasonable - £10-£15 max from memory.
What has surprised me (coming from a state primary) are the things we haven't had to pay for (well any extra anyway!!) eg a terms free instrumental tuition, singing lessons, Y6 activity break, transport to/from sports matches/musical events, match refreshments etc
So far we have been delighted with our choice - it was right for our DS.

Seeline thank you very much indeed. That's very useful.

Hi Seeline, could you please let me know how much the T uniforms cost? Your post is really helpful as currently we are discussing ths fees and the extra expenditures. I suppose we should also add the sports gears such as football kit, rugby, cricket whites etc.

From memory the sports kit cost me around £250 but that was everything - rugby, cricket, gym, tracksuit, under armour garment, etc. Thankfully my son hasn't lost anything. In hindsight, I would be tempted to buy from second hand uniform. After a few wears the kit is hardly pristine. Particularly the white rugby shorts!

The uniform - shirt from M&S, one school jumper (which he refuses to wear), trousers M&S, blazer was very reasonable can't remember how much. School shoes (Clarks, but because I have a thing about fitting shoes correctly for growing feet).

My DS had never played rugby before, he has the entry level rugby boots Sonico I think, Sports Direct around £20.

Hope that helps.

Actually I think I have all the receipts at home. I'll double check tonight. However, I do think the actually uniform costs are small compared to most schools.

Apparently watch out for the mouth guards for rugby. One friend (whose son's education is being paid for by a family trust, jammy beggar) paid £50 for hers (custom made to be moulded to her boy's gnashers). Is that the norm? Complete novice here.

No, not the norm for Mouthguards. Opro self-moulding are fine. These are available on Amazon, Hewitts, etc. Just got a special one for my DS as now had a brace fitted. It cost £20,

However, if my DS played very competitive Rugby, I might be inclined to by a custom dental one to protect.

Hipster - what is it with the jumpers? Ds refuses to wear his too, no matter how cold - no jumper and no coat!
The blazers are quite thick though.

Thanks, Hipster. DS not looking likely to be the next Leigh Halfpenny, so I think Opro will do him just fine!

burntoutdad, I should have learnt my lesson ts his primary school - he never wore them there either. I just felt bad not purchasing one for colder weather. It makes me shudder to see him leave in shirt and blazer, with the lovely new jumper purposely left on the side.

I wasn't going to post this, as there are so many scholarships at the impressive academic schools on this thread.

But actually, I'm really proud of DS. From scoring 35% in an Alleyn's test paper in October, and the tutor gently suggesting that he should set his sights on Emanuel and St Benedict's, but no higher (I don't blame her, it was a particularly rubbish test paper she based her comments on) - not only did he get full fee offers from DC, A and Trinity, but he's also got a 10% Academic Scholarship at St Benedict's.

He came such a long way in literally the last month or so of the process, and he worked so hard. And there will be mothers who read this thread who are going to go through this next year, and who I hope will be heartened by my ridiculous journey of overdramatisation, catastrophising, and eventual happy outcome!

MrsSteptoe,

Congratulations!!! You and your DS must be so proud. Even if you don't take it up (which you probably won't given a host of other brilliant offers ), it's such a confidence boost for you DS and such a great start to his secondary journey.

Do you know what you are leanings towards?

Irisha, DS is frustratingly casual about the whole thing, actually! I hoped he'd be really pleased, but I think he's now a bit concerned that we might want him to take the s/ship and go to St B's - which, although he liked it, was his bottom choice (of five lovely choices, IYSWIM).

I think we're likely to end up at Dulwich. It's the school he initially got excited about, I think single sex might suit him better - though I can't really articulate why - and DH just can't get his head round a school that doesn't have a London postcode, which eliminates Trinity for him. Still debating, though!

That's fantastic MrsS! Well done to your DS. I think it's a really valuable lesson to learn-that hard work makes such a difference, even in a relatively short space of time. You can remind him of this when he's coming up to GCSEs!!

MrsSteptoe,
Congrats for your DS- but understand your choice for Dulwich. Ours got an 10% schol for St B's too but we will go for W instead. Still, it is nice to make them feel proud of their achievement.

DS has been offered full fee place at Whitgift and Trinity (and others), so facing a tough decision and could do with some opinions from people that know the schools well.

My view from visiting the schools and from all the comments on this forum and other sources is that both W and T are fantastic schools, and would provide a great opportunity for my DS. The decision will come down to DS preference and the culture or ethos of the schools and how that fits his character.

My impression of the character of the schools is as follows:

W does a great job of selling itself (looking for international acclaim), has great academic results, very glamorous with great history (alumni), fantastic facilities, grounds, and outstanding extra-curricular opportunities. W seems to be more suited to boys that are high achievers and competitive in sports or talented in music, but boys that don’t necessarily stand out from the crowd by excelling in sports or music, or are top of the class academically, may get lost in the system – shrinking violets may get trampled.

Whereas T has similar academic results (slightly better than W over the last few years), also has great facilities, and extra-curricular opportunities, but is less focused on boys that are high achievers and competitive in sports. T gives the impression that they are more nurturing than W – shrinking violets may get drawn out of themselves and blossom.

Also considering the cost aspects, T has significantly lower fees which is a big plus since we will be paying full cost. T seems more focused on keeping costs down (no peacocks and purple capes) so I would expect additional costs for uniform and trips, etc. to be less than W.

DS will be commuting via Clapham Junction or School Bus. So another key consideration is the journey to school. The commute from CJ to T is going to be a bit more than W, we did a trial run which was about 45 mins for T vs about 30 mins for W.

At the moment my instinct tells me that T is the best choice because it is a better fit for DS’s character, is cheaper, and is DS’s preference (he loved W but I think he is put off by the strong focus on sport) – he is strong academically, quiet but confident, with little interest in sport or music (hopefully the school will help change this).

Does anyone that knows the schools well, disagree with my impression of the schools characters?

Can anyone who’s DS travels to T or W from the Clapham Junction comment on the journey, what time does DS normally leave in the morning (what train/bus time), and what route do they use? Also for commute home?

How many boys go to the school from local Croydon area vs outside Croydon? How many boys travel via CJ to the school?

I am guessing your route to T would be pretty easy Clapham Junction to East Croydon and the choice of many bus routes directly outside East Croydon Station to Trinity Front Door. DS class come from all areas - Dulwich, Clapham, Forest Hill, Bromley, Beckenham, Croydon, Purley, Kenley, etc.

T not as nurturing as it likes to make out and W has a softer side than you'd think! W much better with any kind of learning difficulty

All other things being equal I'd go for whichever has the easiest journey for your son