The Trinity Whitgift Dulwich 11+/10+ thread 2014 pt2

[LadyMuck]

Anyone still out there?!

Hello burnt, nice to see you again!

Indeed lost, not every school will suit every child. It's important to remember how incredibly privileged those of us on these threads are, to even have these decisions to make at all...

Heard a rumour today that w only offered 6 sports scholarships at 11+ this year which seems very low compared to approx 400 applicants. This is only a rumour I can't state it as a fact.

woodcote75 re scholarship whilst at the school I think ds would have to be significantly outperforming his peers for this to happen and standard is very high. You could always try pinning them down a bit and ask them what goals your ds should aim for to be considered which would give you a better chance of negotiating but your best chances of an award would probably be at 13+.

Well, we all know that a board like this involves speculation about these schools' strategies. It's all opinion unless it comes direct from an admissions officer. Feel free to disagree with LM if you feel differently, but I don't think anyone should have to flag up what they say as opinion -- that's taken as read!

Only 6 sports awards does sound very low considering all the different sports there are! How would anyone know this?

Did say it was a rumour but sports scholarships are for allround sporting achievement/potential/ability not for each sport which is why it's quite difficult to get one. At 13+ this year there are specific rugby scholarships but this is never the case at 10/11.

My personal view is that it is an ambitious school, which spends a lot of money, isn't backwards in coming forwards about its facilities and its grounds (ie The Blasted Peacocks), expects results and doesn't have too much time for those that don't achieve on some level.

To be fair, those things could be said about T.
Apart from the peacocks.

I'd really appreciate people's feedback on a tough decision we have to make. My DS has done so well (we are so proud) and got a place at DC but not with the bursary we hoped for. We can only afford the fees by moving and releasing money that way but as we're already living in a flat that means moving to a cheaper (and not as nice) area, away from walking distance to our DDs junior school and in turn any chance of her getting in to the recently opened Academy which although not our first choice (because it is an unknown quantity), is a safe back-up but has a distance criteria.

My son is distraught at the thought of not going (who wouldn't be after all that hard work and waiting and worrying), he really loves DC and is very frustrated/worried/stressed at the to-ing and fro-ing of this decision we have to make. We also feel that the school would be fabulous for him - he'll really make the most of it. However, we have no experience of private education, so it could be that we're embuing the school with super powers it doesn't have.

Could anybody give me their experiences of private school education v state at secondary level? Has anyone else made a big sacrifice to send their kid to a private school and do you think it was a good decision?

Any comments truly appreciated.

Can't offer any wise words to anyone, but wanted to thank those who've been posting from the beginning of the original thread way back in Dec 2013 - seems like a very long time ago. This is our first experience of the whole process and this thread and its predecessor have really helped me understand whats going on. Special mention to ladymuck thank you.

Mummyinatizz so glad your DS got his 10+ place. I do think I may have spoke to you whilst your DS was being interviewed. My DS was doing sports assessment at the time. I remember the boy outside the interview room waving his trophies around and you mentioned sitting Emmanual. I was with a lady who knew you!

poozie how funny, thanks we are delighted and very lucky to be able to accept the offer. I do feel for those who have tough decisions to make. best of luck to you!

Thanks keeping fingers and toes crossed!

Waves to fatalflower, burntout & Croydonmum. Hope you are all having a lovely break!

Just to add to what others have said, whatever W's faults, the academic drive is very is serious, my DS for one, is really motivated. And there is help available if anyone finds themselves struggling. There are lunch time clinics which can be are either voluntary or compulsory. They have limited some boys' sports or taken them out, while they catch up on subjects they may be struggling with.

So far, we have found the teachers approachable and they respond to emails we or DS have sent to them, answering our queries, and sometimes have phoned us to discuss over the phone as well. So far so good, early days yet, but we are happy.

We rejected our full fee offer from W! Sent off the 'thanks, but no thanks letter' off. However, before doing this, I did call up W to ask whether we could be re-considered/put on waiting list for a bursary. The admissions dept gave me a curt reply saying it's not possible as DS, although in the top 50 for Maths and English, does not qualify for a bursary. So in simple terms, take it or leave it.
Some one made a comment earlier that "no school is perfect and no school will get everything right"...agreed...however, if you are paying £17k+ fees a year, you would expect the school to be damn near perfect, wouldn't you?

I think everyone, wether paying £17k, 9k , 30k or nil k expects a school to be perfect - for their DC. This is obviously not always the case and definitely wouldn't be for every child or parent at a school.
Maybe the school have decided to give academic scholarships only to say the top 10 and in both English and maths, and bursaries to those in top 20, Maybe they feel comfortable sports wise and have decided to give more of the pot to musicians or actors or boarders- who knows? 'Take it or leave it' would be the attitude of many businesses if they didn't want to negotiate with a particular client - and these schools are all businesses, charitable or not whatever way you look at it.

Has anyone had any success with renegotiating scholarship offers? We can't use ours currently as the fees are still too high. Is it worth calling admissions and would you do this now to show how keen you are, or wait to see when grammar results come in and can be used as a bargaining chip?
Also, with a full fees offer from T, does anybody think it is worth talking to them and mentioning a scholarship offer from W and seeing what they can do or is it a closed door if no offer was made? In their letter to DS' prep they said he was 'very close' to an art schol.
I hate the thought of wheeling and dealing but OTOH, don't want to give up too easily! All opinions much appreciated...

Motherofsurburbia guess the difficulty trying to negotiate with T is they are prob still cheaper than W with a schol offer? I guess if you focus more on opportunities a scholar has rather than based on fees you might swing it if your DS was close. Def worth a shot.

I successfully negotiated a scholarship with T on receipt of a scholarship offer from W

MotherOfSuburbia, yes you should go and discuss with them. I think T admission is closed this week because of half term.

No harm in trying, rather than regretting it a few months down the line.

burntoutdad...true. These institutions are businesses.
Incidentally, how is your DS settling, I believe he is at T, right? I followed last years thread and know the journey you went through.

Hi Alice it's actually W.
Won't lie - its been a huge upheaval, mostly for us rather than him, mainly due to switchto secondary but also sheer volume of work, sporting activities and other co curricular I.e. school plays and concerts etc. Even getting bags ready for mornings was becoming stressful. But now in routine so bag takes 2 mins instead of 20, homework done without prompting (mainly), and starting to enjoy school.
We are glad that we decided to join in yr 6 and view it as a soft start, we expect another ramp up next year. Boys from preps may be used to it but it is a far cry from our previous state primary in term of work output.
I am impressed with what they have already covered and learnt this year.
I would advise anyone who does not pay for schooling now and worries they might truly struggle financially (not just making luxury sacrifices) to think carefully and have a contingency plan for peace of mind. Paying the fees seem to become the main focus of every decision (even more so than the mortgage! ) Also bear in mind that they increase every year so maybe an extra £100 /month each year over what you would pay to start. Just advice for those who's mind is whirling in the process at the moment.

Hi, burntoutdad - we are heading for the same transition!

When you say "an extra £100/month/year", is that what you feel you're roughly having to allow for to cover both fee increases and the inevitable extras? Or is £100/month/year what you're forking out in extras, and the fee increases are on top of that?

My mind is indeed whirling, so any info you feel you can offer on this would be very welcome indeed - I think our position may well be similar to yours.

As an old and tired mum of 3 DS's, I can comment on my experience for some of the questions on this Thread. DS1 offered co-curricular scholarships at 13+ for DC (top Scholarship) W and (alsoTop at another School), tried to negotiate with W for more on the basis of the DC scholarship - no luck. DS2 got to interview stage at W(11+) but wait listed at number 10 on the wait list. Unfortunately, Wait list did not move at all that year. (Received both a fat envelope and a thin envelope on offer day!).

DS1 now in sixth form, yes W do cull as other schools do, but the points system is not too taxing, for example in theory you could have enough points (21 required) to stay on at W with 11 B's, practically it is more difficult in that you need A's at GCSE to continue with Maths/Sciences/Languages. There is a lot of extra help available to anyone who wants it, Clinc's etc, teacher's always offer to be sought out for questions etc. DS1, was bottom 3rd for a few subjects, in fact probably bottom 10% for language (still achieved an A* at iGCSE), He had a total of 40 points.

Yes you are required to have a C at AS to continue to the A2 course, but if you don't make it you can repeat the year to get your grades up, or change to subjects that might suit you better as one of DS friends did. DS2 very happy elsewhere and has developed no end, couldn't move him with a barge pole if we tried.

DS3 likely to do W 11+ next year along with 13+ pretests for St P's and KCS where his HM wants to go, but his own heart lies with W. So I will be on here next year which promises to be a very nail biting year for us with A2's, Uni Applications, GCSE's and 11+ all going on at the same time!. We have been delighted with W to date, I can't fault it. Even at it's current fees (we don't know increases for other schools at yet for 2014) it is on par with DC, KGS, Emanuel, cheaper than KCS, St P's, Epsom, StJohn's and Reeds. School fees are not for the faint hearted, though they do make me feel faint hearted most of the time. Roll on Uni when DS can get his own loans...

MrsSteptoe ignoring extras (we haven't had many yet apart from unifor, school bus etc) and any scholarship you may receive the school fees were approx 15.5k previous year 16.5k this yr 17.4k next year and so on . So allowing for 1k or so a year increase over say 6yrs would give £100/m increase per year or £500 extra a month in fees alone in 6yrs time. (Assuming of course fees rise at same rate, May stay the same some years but who knows!) Probably school bus etc will rise too. It's just worth noting this to be prepared and hope the pay rises increase at same rate .
Dont want to put you off as so far i think it's been a great school and direct acsess to teachers and their quick responses has been fantastic as Hott has said, and it's this sort of thing that your paying for. Wether it's worth it is or value for money is for each individual to decide based on their own situation. nearly Perfect for some maybe not for others

PooziePuzzle. We or should I say I plucked up the courage (DH has lost interest) and called W, who claim they have been trying to contact us. Had a very long discussion and as a result had another conversation with head of sport later, followed by another call back from them to discuss even further. Result is NO increase in % :-( . They acknowledged that DS is at the top of his game and both he and the school could benefit greatly in the coming years, but it was stressed that budgets, awards and the diversity and calibre of applicants was such that the school have little choice in the level of awards.

To be fair during the four conversations with various people from the school this week I have not found them cold, to the contrary they have made a real effort to explain the decisions, explain their relationship with the foundation, budgets etc. I very nearly felt quite sorry for Mr O!

I asked a number of direct questions, the only one to receive a vague answer related to number of sports scholarships. For 11+ It was less than 30, included in this were an undisclosed number of honorary scholarships which apparently leave a door open for later should a student excel beyond expectation. I was also advised that my DS may receive a greater contribution should he also exceed expectation and we should discuss this with the school after his first full school year has completed. One interesting chat with admissions also revealed that it had been a difficult year as more and more boys had clearly prepared for both exams and sport and the calibre each year is rising. I was told that the 11+ had really raised the bar this year in terms of candidates and that they were also surprised that the 10+ level had been off the scale in respect to sport and that for Lower School it had been a tough decision making process for them as the budget covers the whole intake.

We are not able to make this decision likely, this is our child and he deserves the best chance. Although financially this will be life changing for us with many many sacrifices, the fact remains that W really will give DS the best opportunity to fulfil his dreams. We have spoken to existing parents of W students and found no doubters. We have exhausted our research into schools, decided upon W over eighteen months ago, could not afford 10+, prepared DS for 11+ who has fulfilled his side of the bargain and performed to the required level winning a small scholarship and as a result we have today contacted the school to ACCEPT their offer.

I have a tear in my eye as I write this because I know how our lives will change and some of the hardship to expect, I know what it means to DS and how proud and excited he is, but also because I know what it means to some of you reading this who have no option but not to accept an offer from W, plus a feel sad for those parents whose DS never received an offer and may have the pain of waiting further to hear for sure.

Thank you all for your support and advice. I wish you all luck and that your DS's and DD's fulfil their ambitions.

burntoutdad Ah, OK. Thanks. Can't imagine school fees ever remaining put for a year - 3% a year would strike me as a minimum, and I'm assuming 5% a year. Unfortunately, we don't get pay rises so I have to do all my sums from where we are today, as it were. I've got enough to cover fee increases, but extras worry me. I shall have to see if the bursar can give us an idea of what to expect with extras, I think...