The Trinity Whitgift Dulwich 11+/10+ thread 2014 pt2

[LadyMuck]

Anyone still out there?!

Have a read through the latter part of last year's thread if you want. Usually all goes well until Upper V, though one may not always be aware of the opportunities that are open to other boys along the way. But as I said, the boys have a great time. And it is also about what other school options are available to you.

If you are refering to the cull at sixth form then I do not know any academic school that does not do this state and independent. the more academic ones tending to have a more challenging point system. I am aware of the range of opportunities at W and am well placedto pass judgement as I work in the education system myself and have various links with W

Every word that lady muck speaks is the truth.

willthecream No sixth form cull at DD1's extremely academic table topping grammar school. It really doesn't happen at every academic school and it certainly shouldn't happen at schools that have been taking handsome fees off parents for the previous 5 years (or more).

Yes metebelis3 that's what's sticking in my craw at the moment

ladymuck good to have you back, you've been missed - lower third of ability at W need eyes wide open? yikes - I've been through this process with blinkers on and was planning on keeping them on until uni applications not we've got a10+ full fees offer from W - still blinking delighted.

Yes Ladymuck, we have considered Caterham ( and other schools) and still prefer W. We have come from a small local co-ed school as well, not same as yours and obviously, not one of the 2 local preps you enquired about earlier in the thread. Generally, most people would've researched schools and considered options before deciding on one.

I doubt very much that every word Ladymuck speaks is the truth. Most are her opinions, and not facts.

I'm also interested in how one knows exactly how many full fee paying students a school needs to make their plans work. Unless you are part of the 'projection committee' and understand fully how the foundation works and are privy to all investments the foundation has and plans for the future. All schools need a certain amount of full fee paying students, super selective, or non super selective.

LadyMuck, I don't disagree, though our experience has been that often the kids who find themselves towards the bottom are perfectly bright but "distracted". I am sure their parents must be really frustrated that they are not making the most of opportunities offered. However they must also think about whether things might have been worse in a mixed ability comprehensive where there is more scope to sink further and perhaps more distractions. (Private schools WILL get rid of pupils whose behaviour prevents others from learning.)

The 11+ is a snapshot test where different pupils will have different levels of maturity and have had different amounts of preparation. Before everyone starts phoning admissions officers, being ranked in the bottom third of those who have received offers will have relatively little bearing on where a child is in 2 or 3 years time. Application and engagement will count for a lot. Two of DDs academic and hard working friendship group recently told her they came in through the wait list. One is now top set everything.

There is a lot of wisdom and experience on this thread. Please use it, but also trust your own research and instinct.

Different DSs and different parents prefer different schools. Thank goodness, otherwise we'd all be applying to the same school!

All I can say is that DS has to work his puny little bottom off to justify the money we are spending - and to make sure he can stay on in W. He has known that from Day One. So have we. If I had wanted to merely pay a lot of money and then kick back and wait for the teachers to perform miracles, I would have chosen a different school. (Does such school even exist?!)

Actually, fme lady m is pretty much on the money.

What about the bottom third at other independent schools then? Or is this a phenomenon unique to W? I'm puzzled.

Not unique at all Trinity do it, Whitgift do it, Wallington Boys do it. Usual practice as far as I can see.

Spot on Hipster1 - I have heard exactly the same for Wallington Boys from someone with 2 DSs there.

It's completely normal to have a minimum requirement in order to go onto sixth form - all the local schools round here (state and private) do the same - internal candidates usually have slightly less stringent requirements than external candidates but none of the schools wants to have sixth formers who haven't been able to apply themselves for GCSEs

Trinity at least 4as in subjects to be taken at A Level 51 pts from your best nine GCSE. dulwich college 18pts from Gcses otherwise you are asked to leave.This is extremely common practice. Metabilis38 maybe your grammar school doesn't actually ask them to leave but I bet you will not be allowed to take A Levels in subjects without A grades. And then at As level again if minimum grades are not acheived you coulds be asked to leave.

Requiring A grades at GCSE to study a subject at A level is normal practice in state schools. I teach in an Academy and we would be doing the students a disservice allowing them to take an A level with anything less. Our big issue is between Year 12 and Year 13, too many allowed to stay on with frankly appalling AS results. Not sure how the independent sector deal with that if they split courses into AS and then A2 in the final year.

Wondering if brown sugar and poozie have had any luck with the bursar at W this week ?

dipping - requiring a grade to do A level isn't quite the same as having a no exceptions cull on overall results though, is it.

Wrt the 6th form requirements, T also require good effort grades.

From my experience: the boys get exceptional support if they struggle with a subject. For example: there are lunchtime clinics etc - voluntary or, if grades were really not good, compulsory. So maybe that is part of what we pay for: not just to have DSs in the top few, but also to get help and support for those who want to improve.

Btw, it would be rather odd if all the boys in the bottom third withdrew their applications. So will the middle third then become the bottom third and also start worrying? Even if they are left with the top three candidates, there would be one in the bottom third... it's laughable. There are many boys who come in at the bottom of the group (maybe they didn't go to prep schools?) who work their way up and do really well later on.

No luck with bursary yet. What about you poozie and brown sugar?

metebelis3 you would be hard pressed to find a Year 11 student that has 4 A grades at GCSE and then has terrible grades that go with it. Thus, requiring four A grades to do 4 AS levels is essentially a cull in the same way as an independent school . We also use the transition to sixth form to remove students whose behaviour is poor regardless of grades - we just refuse to have them back.

Truda11 did you phone foundation?

My experience at W was that a number of boys had to leave post AS results as you needed a C to take the subject to A2. So boys with say AADD had to leave and find places at schools or colleges at such short notice. It was so ruthless and frankly did not predict their final A2 grade. So after 7 years of fees it was a harsh reality for boys and parents. Luckily my DD made the grade. I agree a cull at GCSE but felt that the stance W took at AS was wrong and not in the best interests of the boys concerned.

Unfortunately a D grade at AS usually means a poor grade at A2 as the jump up in content is greater than between GCSE and AS, however I accept this is not always the case but I imagine schools like W look at the huge amount of stats available and therefore make the cut off a C grade. Agree that it is harsh on the students and parents alike but if the sixth form leadership team are any good, it should not have come as a shock to the boys.

I would be annoyed as a parent it I had no idea my son was at risk of getting a D grade in any of his subjects.