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why are some women content to do all the housework?

1143 replies

honeydew · 10/07/2006 01:31

I meet lots of mums in my local area who, like me, are stay at home mums with very young children but are prepared to do absolutely everything for their partners and DH's! They slave away cooking, cleaning and washing at home with no help and at the weekends, they still don't expect
their partners to do anything! I have friends who never get a proper break from their children, even if it's only for a couple of hours. Their DH's leave them to it 24/7. Is it just me who has found that old style patriarchy is alive and well in society once a woman gives up work to raise her brood? My DH does help me with baby DS, he also puts my older daughter to bed and washes up after I've cooked each night, so we work as a team. So many women I speak to say that their DH's are not 'hands on' parents and do virtually all the chores and baby changing/feeding. Oviously, if one partner is working during the week they can't do that much, but some men don't want to contribute at all it would seem! Are they just lazy or simply 'expect' women to fulfill that role?

OP posts:
soapbox · 14/07/2006 00:16

Mr Kittywits - I think you'll find that your dear wifey has posted, in some considerable detail, how she lives her life.

As I said before, all credit to her for choosing to live this way. But I could not!

kittywits · 14/07/2006 00:42

Mr. Kittywits:
No Soapbox, "Dear Wifey" hasn't told you much (yes I've read all her postings). She's told you about 10%. If you want to ask her more, she'll tell you.

If you knew how she lived, I think you might change your opinion.
Some might have spotted that Kitty is not backward at coming forward, if she didn't have a good deal, she wouldn't accept it!

soapbox · 14/07/2006 00:45

Believe me Mr Kittywits, she's said quite enough for me to know that I wouldn't want to live her life

In fact I am rather horrified at what the other 90% might disclose

kittywits · 14/07/2006 00:51

Mr. Kittywits:

Soapy (I think we're friends now) ask her, it might make you laugh more.

soapbox · 14/07/2006 00:53

Hmmm - laugh or cry I wonder

As I said - each to their own. It wouldn't be me, but I am glad that she is happy with her lot, and you too of course!

kittywits · 14/07/2006 00:59

Mr. Kittywits:
Soapbox, just shuffled back through the thread and can't seem to find any postings. What's your take on all this then?

soapbox · 14/07/2006 01:08

Well DH and I both have big City jobs. We couldn't muddle through unless we shared things at home.

I am ruinously spoiled though and have a lots of paid help - so I don't really think I can really complain about my lot

We both have a lot of flexibility in what we do, so can work from home regularly, make the school shows, sports days, parents consultations etc etc. In fact more often that not we both go together As I said, we're pretty spoiled

kittywits · 14/07/2006 01:18

Mr. Kittywits:

Now I'm really confused, you have paid help like us, you work from home like us, make the school shows, sports days, parents consultations etc etc. like us. In fact more often that not you both go together. As I see it, the difference between your lifes and ours is that you go to work, Kitty doesn't?

soapbox · 14/07/2006 01:23

Well yes! That and having a DH who doesn't mind changing nappies and that I take an active part in running the finances of the family and so on...

kittywits · 14/07/2006 01:29

Soapy (yes we're still friends) would love to find out what you and dp do in the city; if you both do similar jobs, of course you both take care of the nipper.

kittywits · 14/07/2006 01:32

Mr. Kittywits:

Ps: didn't know you city types had time to reproduce!

FairyMum · 14/07/2006 01:33

Is it masculin for a man to come on MN?

kittywits · 14/07/2006 01:38

Sorry Fairymum, answered a message for Kittywits that was really for me, than got carried away. Is it masculine to be on MS? Don't know.

Gemmitygem · 14/07/2006 04:46

I don't see why we're criticising kittywits.. millions of women around the world live in a similar situation, e.g. man earns and provides, woman takes care of kids and home. She seems like an extremely confident and sorted woman.

I think it's just that for those of us who want more equal partnerships in the sense that both partners have a career which fulfils them plus a home life, it's so recent that we have 'escaped' from the old model, and probably most of our parents fit the old model, that it makes you feel a bit panicky to hear about people that still live this way.

My dh is a modern man who believes in equality, and who does 50% of the housework etc, and will do 50% of babycare when it comes along in Oct, but IF I really insisted on staying home with the kids and doing the housework, in a regressive kind of way he would probably secretly get some satisfaction from that: after all, it is great to have someone cleaning up all your crap and making your home nice, so you don't have to. And also, in a regressive way, I can feel the residues of the old world pulling at me, saying 'you should make a comfortable home for DH' or at the very least making me feel just slightly guilty if we've run out of milk, as though it was more my responsibility than his to remember to buy it. So there is that little underlying struggle in your mind, and you DO have to keep your career goals in mind, keep remembering not to take on a housewifely role, and keep taking responsibility together with partner for creating your own little egalitarian utopia, otherwise, yes, it might be quite easy to slip into doing what your parents did and listening to those old messages of what women and men are good at. And then personally, I would end up extremely resentful and frustrated because it's not what I really want or who I am.

So I think the example of people who firmly live in the old model, which of course works for some, makes those of us who are trying with various degrees of success to live in newish models of partnership, feel queasy and scared because the old model is still a very strong prototype in our minds..

That's the whole thing I suppose about social change, there's people right at the front bravely struggling on and probably having quite a difficult time or dealing with stigma (SAHDs, very innovative family friendly working models), then a new mainstream (e.g. working mothers trying to get partners to do enough in the house), then a previous mainstream (housewife at home, man in the office) who are pulling backwards.

For me, DH's willingness to share everything with me, finances, housework and childcare, is part of the point of being married (or in a partnership). We're sharing the same life, not cocooned in different worlds as someone said earlier.

On a lighter note, there must be a reason why Athena sold SO many of those posters with the sexy guy holding a baby!

kittywits · 14/07/2006 07:26

I'm back!!
Tigermoth, yes our system does depend on money NOW because we have some. When ds1 was 14 months old ds2 was born by section and I lived in a separate house to Dp. We moved in together a few months later, but I had no help in the house etc until I was heavily preg with dd1, about 2 years later, and then it was not everyday. When I first knew dp he waw just starting out in his business having gone bust during the 80's housing crash. He lived in one bedromm basement flat, so my feelings for the type of man he is isn't based on money. He has always been a very masculine male, that is his personality. Now we are financially comfortable and can afford to have more children and home help. If he went bankrupt we would have to do lots of adjusting, but it wouldn't change the integral masculine nature of his character.
Actually, recently things have been really tough business wise and he's had to work even harder and been able to be around alot less. He has to work harder to get things back on track.

joelallie · 14/07/2006 07:39

Hi Kittywits - or Mr Kittywits .....

You live your life the way you choose. Sorry to come over all Stepford wife but if I had a DH who earned anough to keep me at home and have 5 kids I think I'd be happy to change all the nappies . Instead I have a DH that earns anough to keep me at work with only 3 kids.....but he does change nappies when the stench gets too bad to ignore. If you are happy stick to your guns.

But I still object to this:

"1) I find men who do lots of house work a bit wimpy and not manly, not my cup of tea.

Wierd and offensive but your opinion I suppose....

  1. No one can beleive that Dp and I have chosen to live the way we do. It hasn't evolved with him promising the earth and me becoming more and more put upon. We chose our roles and jobs, sharing both the good and bad bits....

I don't think anyone has trouble in beleiving that you chose it. I am beginning to feel that it's your DP that is put upon - he must feel almost as if he has 6 kids!! I can't understand how an adult person can abdicate all responsiblity for so much of the grown-up stuff in her life. But..again it's your choice.

And I still really resent your original assertion that mothers are the only people that can care for children. The inference being that kids of WOHM miss out. You personally may be a much better mum than me (I don't know) but it's not your being there 24/7 that makes it so.

joelallie · 14/07/2006 07:39

Hi Kittywits - or Mr Kittywits .....

You live your life the way you choose. Sorry to come over all Stepford wife but if I had a DH who earned anough to keep me at home and have 5 kids I think I'd be happy to change all the nappies . Instead I have a DH that earns anough to keep me at work with only 3 kids.....but he does change nappies when the stench gets too bad to ignore. If you are happy stick to your guns.

But I still object to this:

"1) I find men who do lots of house work a bit wimpy and not manly, not my cup of tea.

Wierd and offensive but your opinion I suppose....

  1. No one can beleive that Dp and I have chosen to live the way we do. It hasn't evolved with him promising the earth and me becoming more and more put upon. We chose our roles and jobs, sharing both the good and bad bits....

I don't think anyone has trouble in beleiving that you chose it. I am beginning to feel that it's your DP that is put upon - he must feel almost as if he has 6 kids!! I can't understand how an adult person can abdicate all responsiblity for so much of the grown-up stuff in her life. But..again it's your choice.

And I still really resent your original assertion that mothers are the only people that can care for children. The inference being that kids of WOHM miss out. You personally may be a much better mum than me (I don't know) but it's not your being there 24/7 that makes it so.

kittywits · 14/07/2006 07:55

joel allie- why would dp feel as if he had 6 kids. That would imply that I am a child he has to look after. I really object to that. He does what he does beacuase he wants that role and I want the role I have.
I hardly think a child would run large house, all the extra people employed, and bring up 5 young children, whilst supporting her partner so that he could work and support his family. if you read through my posts and glean anything of my personality i think you you find that I am anything but a child-like dependent.

I rather suspect that some people are envious that they do have to do the stuff that dp does for me. (which I could do btw) but I do other stuff so that we don't have to do the same thing. Why on earth would you want to do jobs you don't have to??
It's absolutely not about abdication of responsilbiliy, it's (AGAIN) about DIVISION OF LABOUR. If you and your dp want to do ALL the jobs then do that.

tigermoth · 14/07/2006 08:04

This is something I agree with you one - I could say it about my own dh. "If he went bankrupt we would have to do lots of adjusting, but it wouldn't change the integral masculine nature of his character."

But what puzzles me is if you feel like this - that his masculine nature is integral to his character and wouldn't change if circumstances changed - then why do you say you think nappy changing etc emasculates him?

Have I misunderstood you? Somewhere amongst your other messages I got the impression you'd find it hard to fancy men who do housework. I can't see how you can believe masculinity is intergral to your dh's personality while also believing that a simple 2 minute nappy change can threaten that.

I do realise that we are putting your life under the spotlight, so please don't feel you have to reveal more and more about your life together. I totally accept that it works for you.

A further question, though (and don't feel you have to answer it) - what if your dh decides he no longer wants to work as hard at his business? Say he goes bankrupt - and that sort of experience could radically change his outlook on life). He decides that building up his business again is not worth the struggle - perhaps even wants you to go out to work while he stays at home - or wants you both to work outside the home so you both share the wage bringing in.

Would you happily support him in his new choice and feel he is still the masculine man that you married?

kittywits · 14/07/2006 08:08

Really interesting questions tigermoth. I will happily do my best to answer them. i have the school run to start in a min, so will start posting again when I get home again

tigermoth · 14/07/2006 08:12

kittywits, school run summons me as well.

I'll catch your answer in the evening - as I said, don't feel you have to say more if you feel you are giving too much away.

blackandwhitecat · 14/07/2006 08:23

'Division of labour' yes, but entirely along gendered grounds. And Mr Kittwits can only be a warm and active father as you describe to a very limited extent. You said earlier he works from 8.30 till 8.30 and will not change nappies or do house-work Now, some may think this nappies thing is trivial but I would be really concerned about the impact on my CHILDREN of their dad sitting there when one of them had done a poo and waiting for mummy to take over. As I said telling them that only mummy deals with their poo is actually a very powerful and pretty shitty (if you'll pardon the expression) message for everyone and it will influence your family for at least the next generation even if they actively try to shake off the influence. It says 'mummy's job is to deal with poo but I am disgusted by your bodily functions and do not know how to look after you on my own or choose not to'.

Similarly, if mummy chooses not to participate in crucial decisions which affect her livelihood and that of her KIDS and could leave her and them up shit creak if dp died or abandoned her (yes, you may trust DP but you can't KNOW this wouldn't happen because you've said you have a v limited awareness or control of your family's finances and choose not to know or control them and because none of us can predict the future. Many destititute women have said 'it couldn't happen to me') it is saying to her kids that women don't do money and have their (financial and otehr) aspects of their lives controlled for them by men which will encourage your sons to see themselves as traditional bread-winners which could disappoint them and their partners in so many ways and your daughters to be passive and think it's someone else's job to protect them which is almost inevitably going to disappoint them. Yes, I know you try to educate both sons and daughters to be indepdent but nothing is as influential as the example you set before them.

I also find it interesting that even on MUMS net you are getting your husband to fight your battles for you. It's obvious how much you feel you need protecting and how much he feels he needs to protect you not just from what you say but from this action. Of course, if you're happy with this then that's fine for you (though again I'd be concerneed about yout kids in the 21st century) but I would be ashamed to need my husband or for him to feel I needed him to stick up for me on a forum for other MUMS especially when as you've said he has such a limited understanding or participation in the role of parenting.

FloatingOnTheMed · 14/07/2006 08:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Beatie · 14/07/2006 08:35

" My Dp for example works from 8.30- 8.30. he is around for some school and nursey runs and is always an active , infact leading participant in the bedtime routine. He would love to spend a little more time with the kids, enjoying their company rather than cleaning nappies. At the moment he works too hard. It is all a trade off, after all. I'm sure you make compromises in your family"

I don't get what compromises your DH is making Kitty

"I have long suspected it's something to do with needing to be in control of the house (because we feel a lack of control in the public sphere?) and needing to feel wanted and indispensible."

I think I agree with you here BAWC.

"Really interested in these last posts. Totally agree with you Fairymum about paternity leave and the different worlds thing. Couldn't live like that either. DP and I spend loads of our time talking about either work or the kids. I couldn't imagaine our relationship if we didn't have either things in common (in the same way IYSWIM)."

I agree with you here too BAWC We don't have the work thing currently but I'm familiar with and interested in DH's job to be able to happily chat about it. I wouldn't feel as emotionally intimate with my DH if our lives were defined by completey separate roles.

"This is the point I was making ages ago that a lot of women either leave financial planning full stop or leave it to their husbands and are therefore very vulnerable. In a minute some-one is going to say that they do more snacking on the days when they're at home with the kids and have put on weight since being a SAHM and I might just have to go and have a lie down."

I don't agree with you here BAWC. DH and I are involved in all the financial decisions which affect our home and family. And we pay into a pension for me. And I eat less crap and spend more time walking than I did when i worked in an office.

"So you really really really let your bloke take absolutely every decision to do with your financial life and he never ever ever does any housework or childcare except bathtime at all"

MI - I think somewhere earlier Kitty said that baths are her responsibility too.

"I do do 90% of the childcare, yes. We have agreed that together. It is NOT as someone said earlier that he CHOSE to do this and that and I CHOSE to let him. We are adults who very much respect each others' strengtts and the benefits we can bring to our family by utilising them."

But your DH has chosen not to deal with any of the dirty bits. I think we're having trouble understanding how you can not be insulted by the premise that dirty work is woman's work. It's not rocket science to change a nappy or bath a child. Nor is it 'hard work'. Tedious and repetetive maybe. But my DH loves to bath our dd's and even seems pretty excited about nappy changes. NOT because he likes to change a nappy more than the next person, but because it gives him a chance to interact with his baby.

I accept that you are happy with the way things are in your household but I think you have to accept that it is a unique set-up. You make it sound as though you and your DH sat down with a clip-board and tick list and clinically shared out tasks about the home. I'm having problems getting my head around treating ones family in this business-like manner.

"Our choices have allowed us to have a pretty comfortable lifestyle and bring up 5 small children so far and I wouldn't want to change it for a bloke who does cleaning and changes nappies thankyou!"

The two aren't mutually exclusive you know!

blackandwhitecat · 14/07/2006 08:35

Not saying it's a bad thing. Just interesting that Kittywits feels the need to ask her DH to defend her lifestyle on Mumsnet and he's happy to do this but not change nappies.

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