Think Carefully Before Opting for Private Education

[PRMum2012]

i am a mum of two (23 months and 3 in august)I am self-employed, part time and married to a lovely architect. We have a great life and two happy kids.

On paper I would say I have not done too badly with my life and my aim is to work full time as soon as possible now my kids are a bit older. If the work was available I would happily work full time now.

Despite setting up my own business I can't help feeling like a failure that I can't afford for my own children, what my parents did for me.... It annoys me that I put so much importance on it ... I am now passionate about finding a decent local primary school for my children so they don't feel the same pressure i do now, when they are older and looking for schools for their kids ....but i'll be honest ......assuming i can afford it i would try and do it from 11 if i can....!!!!...

Hopefully by then, my kids will have an input too and they will be forming their own opinions on the issue.

Depending on mortgage and family support I can't see that it's possible for anyone with two kids earning under £80,000 - £1000,000 + (as a family income) to afford private education anymore, my advice is unless you have a thriving business or two, work as a dr, lawyer or banker.... Forget it.

It's really hard to watch my younger sibling do it for her kids, they are paying for private prep while we cant afford it.... But it really upsets me I feel like this... why can't I just be happy for them and quietly satisfied that I don't need to pay on top of my taxes for my kids education.

For my own primary education i went privately, tried the local school for secondary education but was bullied so moved back to the private system.... I had a mix of private and state during secondary - my second private school was amazing but the second state school I attended for 6th form (my choice) was great too so why is this all having such an impact on what I want for my own kids.

My DH is much more laid back, he went privately all the way through but doesn't place as much value on it as I do/did....I wish I felt the same way but all I feel now is pressure to earn more money so I can pay for them both from 11.

MTSGroupie, as I understand it you have your DH's unspent salary as your pension / saving, whereas in families where your sole income is the family income the pension and rainy day money must come out of that. In any case your sole income is in the bracket which the OP said beneath which private ed would not be possible.

Mimadre, the point is that the school the Inferiorettes go to us actually a cracking good school run by an inspirational Head. Despite this many MNers seem to shudder at the notion of such a multi-everything school. I live in an area of S London which I have seen described in terms of horror on MN, and from my address I would have a genuine choice of 3 excellent primaries and 2 comps I would be happy with. DS is at a company I am extremely happy with.

Of course this isn't guaranteed, and your experiences e is b different. It's true that were I to move half a mile down the road I would be far from happy with my immediate choice of catchment schools. however if I did move, my house would be more expensive.

OP, I was educated in the private sector (direct grant) and I am confident that my DS is doing extremely well in comparison to my own experience, I hated being cloistered in an environment that did not reflect the wider world.

Hmm costco chicken and tap water vs school fees?

Hmm?

Nah, don't think so.

For all of you quoting percentages of A*-C do you understand how that works? It may be that the cohorts' FFTs for that year were 'only' 50% (or even, gasp, 46% and they've done really well by pushing 50% through!).

The overall figure isn't the issue - you need to know the 'value added' in other words what the FFT (Fischer Family Trust, the body that predict GCSE grades based on ks2 and 3 attainment) think the kids SHOULD get compared to what they DO get....

louisanablue2000

I think you've misunderstood me. I've never said the private education is cheap but, generally speaking, it is cheaper in the North of England.

£90k was for a 3 bed detached house bought in 2002. I guess rhings are a lot different down south.

Dh used to work in London but we couldn't afford to move down there.

Fees are definitely cheaper in the North. MGS for example is £10,545pa so about £21k for 2DCs. I am not saying this is affordable but if a family really wants to go private then they can afford to on average salary of £40k each as long as they do not have complicated lives (mostly down to children from other relationships & excessive debt).

Houses are also cheaper up north, with a 4 bed going for £170k in some areas.

In the south east you definitely need a much higher household salary or have access to unlimited overtime to cover cost due to the high housing cost, except you are like my friend who purchased house a long time ago for £60k, sold for £130k to upgrade to a £180k semi.

Bottom line is most people can't justify spending any money at all on education so do not worry if you can't. Just do the best you can, if you feel deep down that sec will be a big problem then start now to put something aside and aim for sec.

And Blu that is the point really that parents should be free to do what they consider best for their child taking account of their full circumstances without these fruitless and endless debates of whether they are short changing the child by going with the state option or wasting money by going the private route. We love our kids and are all trying to do our best by them.

mintyy - I thought that I was supposed to be the snob in this conversation?

MrT- even allowing for the cost of broadband etc which you quote, no gym subs and holidays in uk ( which we do anyway) then your figures do not add up.

Even looking at the very basic figures of £4400 net income minus £2300 for fees each month, that leaves £500 a week for mortgage, etc etc etc.

I don't need any lessons in cooking economically- but you seem to need some lessons in basic maths!

You haven't even started addressing that- or the cost of housing- so maybe you have no mortgage? or your DP pays that before she banks the rest for your pensions?

If you can't actually be totally transparent about your circs then don't join the argument.

Er, no, my point - and Mintyy's, and Blu's - was that contrary to your blanket assertions, a lot of London state secondaries are rather good. A point you have not conceded.

And no motherinferior I am making the point that the schools I have experience of do not meet MY criteria of good and the good schools that are non-selective are not ones I can get my child into because I can't afford the houses within the catchment area.

I even went as far as giving details of what I pay for school fees and even with adding that school fees to house price I don't come close.

Bella - posting that you don't believe that I can live on £500 a week net of tax is a rather stupid to say. A lot of people don't even earn £500 a week gross.

Here lies the problem. In your little world a family couldn't possibly live on £500 a week net. So of course people on £80-£100k can't possibly afford private school .

I've just looked at the fees for the Southern Merchant Taylor's compared to the Northern Merchant Taylor's. The fees for the Southern (seniors) are in excess of £16,000 whereas the Northern one (which is in Liverpool) is less than £10,000. That's a huge difference, considering the two schools look pretty similar.

Having said that private school fees are out of reach of most people, despite their best efforts to budget. That's why I personally like the grammar system. I know it only serves the few but it is a chance for poor kids to compete with wealthier kids on a level playing field.

No, your first point was: 'I wonder if those praising state education live in or near London'?

And three of us have said yes.

You continued: 'It always makes me laugh when parents who live in the million pound homes near excellent state schools smugly inform me of how happy they are with state eduction and how inclusive they are - forgetting that the make up of their primary schools are actually more exclusive with children from similar backgrounds.'

To which I've responded that in fact that is not representative of my children's schools.

Yes, I then rather frivolously conceded the point that my kids' schools are not Entirely Naice In Every Way, and you've rather leapt on that to imply that my own academic standards are clearly a bit slack and that's why I've gone down this route....

You are making assumptions as to how I have perceived your academic standards. It would certainly be stupid to assume that parents who are articulating their points such as you are do not give a fig about their child's education. I stated the stereotype about how these debates are framed.

Disclaimer before I post

I haven't read all of the thread (biggest sin I know), but my comments on your op post OP is what the hell is your fixation with private schooling?

There are some great state schools still going.

But you expressed the stereotype. I do live in London. My local schools are good. They are extremely mixed and they're not simply full of rich white kids. (In truth, both Blu's family and mine are rather ethnically mixed anyway...)

This is getting boring people. We holiday in the UK. We drive 10 year old cars. Because of the age of us and the car the insurance is negligible. Mortgage is £1k pm. We buy food in bulk so food bill is about £50 a week. We don't have Sky or gym membership. We don't smoke or drink. School fees include swimming, football etc so no additional activities to pay for. Family activities include walking, cycling, tennis/basketball in the park. All free stuff.

All the above means that we can afford to privately educate two kids on a sub £100k salary. Believe it/don't believe. Its up to you.

And no mintyy, we don't do this in order to afford school fees.

As I said, this is getting boring

hmmmm I disagree with the point about the North being so cheap housewise or schoolwise. Take Harrogate 70k would buy you a one bedroom flat, for a 4 bedroom terraced you are looking more at 600-700k.

Then you have other nice places like Ilkley & most nice areas in York that are even more expensive.

Leeds or Manchester - yes you can buy a 4 bedroom house for 170k but in extremely undesirable areas.......we used to live in a 250k 3 bed semi in a pretty rough area, where you got your door kicked in every month.

We have now upgraded to a nicer village but even in our rural village in the middle of nowhere you can't get anything for 170k. A 4/5 bed with a pokey garden has just gone for 560k.

Private schools around here vary dramatically, you get one charging 17.5k per year, another 14.5 and another 12k. So I am not sure the North is as cheap as people down south think!! Manchester grammar might be cheap, but there are plenty that aren't!!

I know nothing very little about private schools in London but are they really full of rich, white kids?

And my family is ethnically mixed too. You are stating your experience of London schools depending on where you live and I am stating mine.

For god's sake. You can't use Harrogate and Ilkley as typical examples of house prices in the North

You generalised based on your experience, and I pointed out that it was an unfair generalisation, and that your experience is not necessarily typical. That's my point.

No I used them to say there are expensive places too in the North. The rest of the post referred to Leeds and Manchester. Just curious where you can find a 170k 4 bed house in a nice area in Leeds as can't think of a single place that would offer that.

Of course there are expensive areas in the North but generally speaking, house prices are cheaper in the North.

I can hardly believe I actually had to type that last sentence