What's the educational argument for so many holidays?

[TinTinsSexySister]

Just that really.

Are there any educational benefits to frequent school holidays or are they just an historical hangover? Educationally speaking, would we be worse or better off adopting the US system?

But, exotic, the parents of that 5 year old could still take them out. But parents who are not lucky enough to be able to take the 5 year old for 6 weeks of the year would have to rely on childcare anyway. This way it would be good quality and free childcare using the school facilties.

The point is that school is not purely about education, exotic. And also that most normal people do not find either childcare or extracurricular or pastoral activities as in any way threatening the parental bond or role.

I got drawn in again-I will have to stop reading.

Many teachers will leave if they don't get the holidays-no perhaps or maybe-they will leave. And it will be the best ones-the ones that can get jobs elsewhere.

Or rather education in the broadest possible sense. Sport, extra curriuclar activities, going to the cinema, going for walks, going swimming, reading can all be considered educational.

There is no teacher shortage at the moment. Anyway, under my system teachers could continue to take 6 weeks off as they do now or take less holiday but balance out the hours over more of the year.

Ultimately teachers may need to make sacrificies for the good of the children they teach and the whole of society and economy.

This way it would be good quality and free childcare using the school facilties.

And this is where it is too much for a 5yr old-they need to get away from the crowds into a more homely environment. I don't think that you can have had a 5 yr old clinging to you fivecandles, saying they don't want to go to after school club.

chibi, it has indeed been suggested that doctors should work unsociable hours. Partly to counteract teh fact that you are nearly 20% more likely to die if you go to hospital at the weekend because there are less doctors.

Many GP practices have found ways around this. They work shifts or join other practices so that they can be open later. That also is right and proper.

If you needed an urgent operation at the weekend you wouldn't be arguing that those good doctors deserve their rest would you?

The thing is, there is no way the private sector will adopt your model fivecandles and if they don't, you really will have a two tier system.

'nd this is where it is too much for a 5yr old-they need to get away from the crowds into a more homely environment.'

And I have been accused of living in a middle class bubble.

You do realize that many working parents of 5 year olds and younger under the current system have no choice but to leave them in nurseries or playschemes?? Or in ad hoc arrangments which are less than ideal?

Again, I think there is a lack of understanding of the situation and its problems as it is. There's far too much I'm alright Jack going on.

Ultimately teachers may need to make sacrificies for the good of the children they teach and the whole of society and economy

And ultimately they won't. They will be burnt out and no use to anyone. I work to live. My family come first and I had children to spend time with them-not to parcel them off to childcare while I look after other peoples! They grow up quickly and you miss it. People get to the end of their life saying 'I wish I has spent more time with my family' -I can't think of any who say 'I should have spent longer at work'. Lots of people put their family in front of career-I am one.

'there is no way the private sector will adopt your model fivecandles '

Ironically many private schools including mine are way ahead of the game in terms of providing wrap around care and a much broader range of extra curricular activities. That's sometimes why parents opt for private.

Many private schools run from early until 4.30-5pm as part of the normal day anyway.

I can't solve the all societies ills by working all hours.

High powered lawyers and surgeons cannot simply drop everything for 6 weeks every year. These sorts of parents need good quality childcare as much as less wealthy parents.

Many private schools run from early until 4.30-5pm as part of the normal day anyway.

And this is why they have longer holidays than state schools!! There is no way that teachers will give that level of care without the long holidays-no way at all!!

The lawyers and surgeons that I know can pay for it!

exotic, you're not actually responding to what I'm saying. Nobody is suggesting that you or teachers can or should solve all societies ills or even work more hours. I have repeatedly said that there could be an option for teachers to work their hours according to the current model.

Personally I would rather spread some of the many 100s of unpaid horus I do across the whole year by having a few hours less contact time each week and sacrificing some holiday.

It is already the case that teachers work many, many hours unpaid. This model would recognize that.

I like the idea of shorter summer holidays and longer half-term breaks either side, so 2 weeks in June & 2 weeks in October, leaving 4 weeks in the summer - basically all of August. I think that would help families booking their annual family holiday a bit, and as someone else said give more chance of some nice weather for those of us holidaying in the UK, or indeed spending time at home.

I wouldn't really want to see the balance of school and holiday/home time change for children - because I feel strongly about learning being a home/school partnership. - Though if it did it might mean I had more work options and we were less impoverished ! The difference between the holidays available for those in work and the holidays of children, together with the inadequate childcare options in the UK is a problem, I can see that !

Why do people have children and think that the state will pay for childcare while they work all hours?

'The lawyers and surgeons that I know can pay for it!'

Well, yes, they can and do and it is available (at a cost) in most private schools.

Under my model all parents would have the option of free, quality wrap around care if they chose to use it.

if i needed an urgent operation at the weekend, i wouldn.t have my gp do it.

she has a different job to surgeons and a&e doctors. i am sorry that wasn't obvious. a gp normally deals with general medical issues and will refer patients on if necessary. she does not do surgery or emergency medicine.

my extra 20% time for free was in reference to a gp, not an a&e doctor, or surgeon.

hth

you are not talking about rearranging hours. 13 weeks holiday to 6 weeks holiday is a significant increase in working time

it is not a redistribution

I also do think it would be good to shorten the main summer break to 4 weeks especially for those children for whom it's a less than good experience, and for those families finding it a strain to find childcare for such an extended period in one go.

'Good quality' and 'free' should never be used together when talking about childcare! You just know that corners will be cut somewhere.

Reading through the thread it is obvious we all have different views on school holidays depending on our own situation and those of people we know. The best option is to leave it as it is then we know where we stand; school holidays aren't something new that the current government threw together and also our children grow up so they don't last forever! (ok, I know that isn't helpful if you have young children and are juggling). If changes are made there will still be the same % of people that are inconvenienced, albeit in different ways. Let's face it, the only sure-fire winners will be the travel companies.

'Why do people have children and think that the state will pay for childcare while they work all hours?'

I don't understand this attitude. Some parents have no choice but to work. They might have to work longer hours to cover the cost of childcare. Other parents cannot afford to work because they cannot afford the childcare.

If a parent has to give up work and rely on benefits the state still picks up the tab.

The state does pay for childcare for 3 year olds because it sees this as an investment for all sorts of reasons. Why is it different for 5 or 7 year olds during the sumemr holidays?

And why do some people imply that if parents struggle to find affordable or quality childcare then it's somehow their fault.

Are only rich people or teachers allowed to have children in your world?

fivecandles I have no objection at all to working more weeks of the year if I thought that I could get to work at 8pm and walk out at 6pm and have the evening and all weekends free-I would be quite happy. Unfortunately I can't see who is going to take on the extra and then if I do the extra weeks it needs all the extra hours for preparation, record keeping etc. The time in the classroom isn't an issue-it is the time outside that, that people don't see.
I was a Beaver leader for 4 years-interesting, fun evenings don't just happen! Have you any idea the work needed to have a successful hour and half meeting-an not just play games, colour in etc?