What's the educational argument for so many holidays?

[TinTinsSexySister]

Just that really.

Are there any educational benefits to frequent school holidays or are they just an historical hangover? Educationally speaking, would we be worse or better off adopting the US system?

'our insistence that the state should effectively take over parenting '

Rubbish.

DO you think holiday clubs and nurseries also 'take over parenting'?

What a very strange idea.

lizzie they were rioting because their kids had the time off and they were pissed off at having to arrange childcare

All teachers have degrees these days-this means that they are not stuck with teaching-they can use their degree for other careers.
You can argue all you like BUT many teachers WILL leave if the holidays go-FACT.
(short working day would make me laugh, if it wasn't for the fact that people believe this!!)

Nah, they were rioting in protest at teachers having holidays.

'I don?t want my children part of a state institutionalised system where education is secondary to concerns about exerting control over the children of disadvantaged families'

Eh?

You're not actually making sense just repeating the same old peculiar concerns that I addressed pages ago.

Parents would still be able to take kids on holiday fo r 6 weeks if they want to.

Providing childcare is not 'exerting control' - what sort of warped mindset conflates the two things?

Other jobs are more flexible. DH had to take DS to orthodontist appointments (which are always in the school day) I couldn't. Teachers have to miss sport's days etc-they can't have time off.

@ chibi you're right, of course! And because they were working to pay tax to pay for the fecking feckless teachers and their free holidays. So they couldn't afford trainers and childcare so were raged into rioting and stealing them. Or summat.

'Other jobs are more flexible'

Exactly. I am arguing for more flexibility.

I think it goes around in circles-to be more flexible you get away from one teacher per class and you get time off when you want it. I can see the fuss on here on AIBU if parents knew that the teacher was not in class at regular intervals because she needed to take her DC to the orthodontist. It needs more teachers per school.

So schools to let some kids take 6wks off and others blocks of two or three? How would that work in the average school and for teachers planning? How much notice would parents have to give for taking their two weeks? Sounds like lots of admin and a pita tbh.

The parents i know (lots as i have 5 kids from 13 down to 2yrs) are happy with the holidays. Kids snd parents are ready for a break by the time its half term etc. Even working parents say the kids need a break. Holiday clubs work well for those that need them.

What tiggytape just said.

Well said tiggytape! Teachers are there to teach-people seem to forget that.They are not there to parent- or fix the ills of society. Had I wanted to do that I would have been a social worker or similar. The state shouldn't be getting involved in parenting. If people have children they need to realise they will be expensive and seriously alter their life style. There is no reason why society should pay for them.

In my view taxpayers would be justified in resenting the fact that their taxes pay for us to have 13 week holidays a year especially when that means they have to fork out for additional childcare.

Their taxes don't pay for us to have 13 weeks holidays a year. We are not paid for them.

Yep, totally agree with tiggytape.

A school day is long for a 5 year old-they do not want to arrive for breakfast club and be left there until 6pm. If the parent is working they need a child minder or Granny or someone to take them away to chill out. If people knew what 5 year olds were like after 8 weeks of term they wouldn't suggest that they did longer! They are exhausted. At least teachers are adults and used to it!

'Because that is not what education is for.'

OK, so we had better ban all pastoral care, PSHE, extra curricular activites, school shows, break and lunchtimes, clubs and catch up then.

What a load of jobsworths. Honestly it doesn't reflect well on the profession.

'So schools to let some kids take 6wks off and others blocks of two or three?'

Under my system parents could choose a 6 week block to either take kids out for the whole time (i.e. teachers) or take them out for a proportion of this block, leaving them to do extracurricular stuff/creative/ leisuer/sport/catch up for the remaining time or leave them in to do this stuff for the whole 6 weeks.

Their taxes don't pay for us to have 13 weeks holidays a year. We are not paid for them.

How many times to people need to be told -TEACHERS ARE NOT PAID FOR HOLIDAYS. If the government want terms to be longer then local authorities couldn't afford the staffing bills.

'Their taxes don't pay for us to have 13 weeks holidays a year. We are not paid for them.'

We have a salary which allows us to take 13 weeks unpaid holiday a year and still take home an income signifcantly over the average for the country (oh and a pension to boot). This is funded by taxpayers (most of whom are not so fortunate).

[equally patient]

Other working parents are also entitled to take 13 weeks unpaid leave but most could not afford to do this because their salaries are not so generous.

Here www.gov.uk/parental-leave/entitlement

i sure the financing of works out just fine if you assume that we will be doing it for free. the argument that we already work beyond our contracted hours has been made, this will surely be used to justify it

i cannot see how salaries could be paid otherwise- an extra 6 weeks of working is about 20% of a teaching year

"Other working parents are also entitled to take 13 weeks unpaid leave but most could not afford to do this because their salaries are not so generous."

They can always become teachers. (If they are bright enough!!!)

Some jobs pay more than others. A GP gets better pay than a teacher, a teacher gets better pay than a minimum wage cleaner.

will you be suggesting increases in workload with attendant decreases in pay for other state employees above a certain income threshold?

it has always bothered me that my gp is only open during my work day. maybe we could force her to increase her hours by 20% and do it for

or not because that is a shitty thing to do

'If the state sees fit to intervene in a family's life'

Do you feel this way about extra curricular activities, homework clubs and lunchtime?

It is odd.

I am arguing for a restructuring of the school year which would allow more extra curricular activities/catch up/leisure/sport in a 6 week block which would double up as childcare just as maths and pe lessons and dancing club on a Friday lunchtime do.

THat is not 'intervening in a family's life' any more than providing football training on a Tuesday after school.

I do think your view on state control is just a tiny bit paranoid and, frankly, a bit disturbing.

OK, so we had better ban all pastoral care, PSHE, extra curricular activites, school shows, break and lunchtimes, clubs and catch up then.

A lot of it is good will-teachers are quite happy to do it-but not if it is taken for granted.Running clubs is something most primary school teachers do-it is not part of the job. I think they stopped doing lunch duties in 1970s. They do not have to do shows-and judging from the fuss people make on here when they are asked to send a child in a book character costume etc you get the impression that many parents don't want their DCs education enhanced anyway-not if it inconveniences them! (but they would love it if the teachers dressed all the DCs!!)