What's the educational argument for so many holidays?

[TinTinsSexySister]

Just that really.

Are there any educational benefits to frequent school holidays or are they just an historical hangover? Educationally speaking, would we be worse or better off adopting the US system?

'My job is to teach.'

But there are very good arguments to say that you would be a better teacher if the school holidays were structured around children's academic, social and economic needs rather than medieval harvests.

If you knew that computers would help your kids learn or a particular resource you would fight for those wouldn't you? How is this different?

"But heggiehog, there are so many other jobs where an 8-6 life with no work to take home and a free weekend is an impossible pipe dream - but none of them get 13 weeks' holiday....."

Why is it always about making comparisons? Teachers don't make the rules. Those people are free to retrain and become teachers if they wish. If they don't then presumably they accept the terms and conditions of their job.

As a teacher I accept my terms and conditions. I accept that I will work 8am-6 or 7pm in school during the week then also do work in the evenings and weekends...but get unpaid "holidays" in recompense.

If those unpaid "holidays" were taken away I would leave teaching tomorrow, though I love my job very much.

I wanted to make a difference, but being able to make a difference and have time with my family was an irresistable combination. Csrtainly one that was worth taking a huge paycut for. If I left teaching I could continue making a difference and having time with my family, teachers do not have the monopoly on doing good.

I do not think tha you have to martyr yourself to society to be a great teacher. I think there is nothing wrong in being a teacher because you like the holidays - as long as you perform well in the classroom.

I am also not saying that changes to the holidays should not happen, just that I would not want to teach if they did.

I do know what you mean about holidays for disadvantaged children, in the past I have run summer schools for such children - but that was my choice. My husband and I also fund and run sailing sessions for children who could not afford to pay for lessons. I suspect the children involved get as much out of that as they would do an extra week of maths.

"If you knew that computers would help your kids learn or a particular resource you would fight for those wouldn't you? How is this different?"

No, I wouldn't "fight" for resources or computers. I would politely suggest it to management and if they were unable to provide the funding for said computers or resources then I would make do with what I have. Because that is what I am trained to do, and good at doing.

Despite being a teacher, I am not a heartless bitch. If it is a choice between me remaining in my job and families being able to put food on the table, the latter is obviously the right thing to do.

'It makes no difference to your children whether I work 14 hours a day during term time and then nothing in the holiday or if I work a day hour day and then do my planning and marking in the holiday.'

Well, I know I would be a more effective teacher if I had a more balanced life. I'm sure that most teachers would be more effective if they had less non contact time and less long hours etc.

And, again, if you're going to plan and mark in the holiday anyway, why would you object to losing some of that holiday in order to plan and mark as you went along?

I've only read the last get pages, but fivecandles, can I just point out that many teachers are 'working parents'?

fivecandlesFri 22-Feb-13 22:48:30

' I wonder how big an impact on the economy, crime and the educational attainment of children in poor families that has?'

It's huge. This is largely where I'm coming from (and frankly I'm disappointed that so many teachers don't even seem to acknowledge or care about this).

This is what is pissing me off, where have we said that we don't care or we don't acknowledge it. I have even said that in the past I have run summer schools because I acknwoledge the difficulties. But right now in my life I do not want to give up any of my family time to teaching. That does not mean that I do not care or that I am not acknowledging the issue.

'If those unpaid "holidays" were taken away I would leave teaching tomorrow, though I love my job very much.'

I really respect this but I think there are also large numbers of teachers who have left teaching or are considering it because it's so imbalanced.

I know that I cannot work at this pace until I am 65. On the other hand I think I probably could last longer and have a better quality of life (and family life) if I worked less hours in each week but more weeks over the year. That also must be respected.

We need to attract the best teachers we can. Playschemes do not require qualified teachers. It is madness to employ a graduate to babysit in the holidays. If teaching is made less attractive then it will become impossible to attract bright people. We need people with outstanding communication skills to be teachers rather than the dregs of graduates.

A play scheme can be run with 2 NVQ level 3 leaders on a school site perfectly effectively. The governant is changing the law to make it easier for schools to set up such a playscheme and bring down costs for parents.

"
The govt chose to introduce free nursery care for 3 year olds for the same reason so it's not 'cloud cuckoo land'. "

The governant chose to introduce free nursery care so that 3 year olds are better prepared for school.

I am going to shout now.

I DO NOT WORK IN MY HOLIDAYS, IN THE PAST I DID WHEN I HAD FEWER FAMILY COMMITMENTS. BUT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I HAVE FIVE CHILDREN TO CARE FOR AND HOPEFULLY MORE ON THE WAY I DO NOT WORK IN MY HOLIDAYS.

ONCE AGAIN I DO NOT WORK IN THE HOLIDAYS.

AND FINALLY I DO NOT WORK IN THE HOLIDAYS.

And there's also no good reason that I can see why both our prferences cannot be accommodated. If schools were open all year I could work fewer hours for more weeks and you could work more hours over less.

Honestly, it's so frustrating that businesses can run all year around and online but it's beyond the capability of man to bring schools vaguely into the 21st century.

I know a teacher who teaches children in a very deprived area of Newcastle.

She is a life long friend of my wife and she told her that candidly the children she teaches really do not benefit from holidays. It takes her weeks to get them back to a state where she can move them forward after each school holiday because their home life is so chaotic.

If the school year were reformed I suspect there might well be enormous unforseen benefits.

I do think there must be some way of making the school system fit into the modern world. The majority of parents work and the current system means we need a piecemeal childcare solution that covers the short school day during term (resulting in two transfers per day between school and wrap-around care) and then the school holidays. Lots of holiday clubs only cover the school day but wrap around care only covers term time so an alternative wrap around is required for the school holidays. Which means children are pushed from one set of carers to another throughout the year. Forgive me for finding this unsatisfactory after four years of preschool childcare with a consistent set of carers throughout the year that (shockingly) provided me with a service that actually met my needs with no stress.

My preference would be for a shorter school day (maybe just a morning each day?) and shorter evenly spaced holidays, preferably short enough that parents actually have enough holiday time to cover the holidays. If the school day is shorter but terms are longer then it becomes more viable to be a wrap around care provider which means the kids get greater consistency. a shorter school day would presumably would solve the 'kids exhausted by the holidays' situation, after all my three year old isn't exhausted by her weeks of childcare in the same way that schoolchildren are exhausted by school so the less school per day the better.

I get really pissed off by teachers claiming school isn't a childminder. Frankly, school gets in the way of the excellent private childcare I had in place for my preschoolers and that is the problem.

heggiehog, obviously I'm using the word 'fight' metaphorically. Do you usually take things so literally?

Again, I worry about the lack of imagination evident on this thread.

"I know that I cannot work at this pace until I am 65. On the other hand I think I probably could last longer and have a better quality of life (and family life) if I worked less hours in each week but more weeks over the year. That also must be respected."

Agree. I do not for a second believe, however, that reducing the holidays would lead to the work being more spread out. I simply think we'd end up teaching at the same pace for longer, as they use the expanded term times as an excuse to pack in more teaching, more paperwork, more marking, more assessments....

"heggiehog, obviously I'm using the word 'fight' metaphorically. Do you usually take things so literally?"

Yes. I am on the spectrum. Thank you for making fun of my learning disability.

'I do think there must be some way of making the school system fit into the modern world.'

Yes.

I know I am in danger of making this all about me but what would I do in those extra days in school. I do not need any more days. Most of my colleagues work in a similar manner to myself. We work hard all term and then play even harder all holiday.

I have no issue with schemes running for children during the holidays, as I have said I have contributed to such schemes before but they are just not needed for all children and why would you want to pay all teachers to work in them . Let the young teachers or those who need the money run them, it is a chance for their own career development.

I like the holidays, we needed this half term break, the little ones especially get tired. I like the long summer break as well.

Fair e tough to offer summer 'schools' etc and even target them at children who need them but not all children need them and not all parents want them.

'Thank you for making fun of my learning disability.'

I didn't know it existed so I can hardly be accused of making fun of it!

The reason for the holidays is historical. If course, if the entire country wanted to instigate a complete change in the education set up they could, but almost every person in the country would be affected by it, some positively, some negatively.

Such wide spread change is almost impossible to bring about unless there is a huge swell of public support, and there just isn't.

Tbh, long breaks are a mixed blessing. Kids DO need down time to process stuff and refresh. They need time with their families, and the chance to get out and enjoy the sun. they also manage to forget a certain amount of things they learnt, although it doesn't take that long to catch them up again. The UK has some of the shortest summer breaks in the westernized world, so I think it highly unlikely that there will be any great change in the near future.

I do not think there is any quick fix solution to this problem.

teacherwith2kids - "Is it better for some teachers to leave their jobs, or for many people who can only earn minimum wage to be unable to work at all ..."

Also in a democratic society is it fair for a minority of people in one profession to have such a strangle hold on the working lives and well being of the majority.