What's the educational argument for so many holidays?

[TinTinsSexySister]

Just that really.

Are there any educational benefits to frequent school holidays or are they just an historical hangover? Educationally speaking, would we be worse or better off adopting the US system?

'The country couldn't afford to fund longer hours and shorter holidays for teachers.'

Grrr - but most of us teachers have said that we work for up to a third of the holidays anyway. Many of us would be open to more balance.

I don't believe that teachers are so special that they need 10 times more holiday than any other profession but I do believe they would benefit from a reduced work load which would be possible if the school year was more balanced.

Let us say, for example, that school chooses to stay open for 3 weeks of the summer holiday, providing optional workshops / study days for those who want to avail themselves of it. A mixture of school staff, specialist staff and playworkers could run such weeks, using school facilities for e.g. art, ict, drama, sport, but also involving some 'academic input' if desired - maths workshops, reading groups, whatever.

It might be a better way of using e.g. FSM or pupil premium money than is currenbtly happening....

You're berating the wrong people.

And the country can weirdly afford 27 million for the Olympics opening ceremony and god knows how many million to open free schools for Steiner and Maharashi and so on.

As a teacher, I feel uncomfortable with the idea that teachers UNIQUELY deserve time with their children via long holidays.

I am sure that almost every working parent would love long holidays with their children - but only teachers get them.....

I don't think that teachers would mind listening to alternatives if they knew that it wasn't going to be a question of squeezing the maximum hours for the least money.

The 27 million would not have gone to education if we hadn't hosted the Olympics. Personally I would have no problem working for more weeks of the year if the rest of the hours were sensible. I would willingly do it if I could get to school at 8am, work through to 6pm and then go home and leave it all,and if a weekend was all mine and I could keep on top of the work that way. I can't see it happening.

Exactly teacher. I don't know how teachers justify their need for 'a rest' and need for 6 weeks with their children over and above brain surgeons or nurses or supermarket check out workers.

And if you're saying you work during the holidays anyway then where's the objection to changing the school year to reflect this?

I think it would be one thing if there was any academic, social or economic benefit for the holidays being what they are but there isn't. The holidays are organised according to medieval harvesting.

So the only possible justification is 'because it suits us and our family life' and although I hope that would be taken into account in any review I don't think it's a fair way to allocate such a significant amount of tax payers money. Any more than it would be for civil servants or nurses.

I agree, teachers alone should not be able to spend quality time with their children. However for me being able to have quality time with my children was the very reason why I became a teacher.

Of course I could be a really shit teacher and therefore no great loss. I am equally certain that lots of other people who could do the job as well as me would take my place if I left.

But I am allowed to say that I would not want to lose my holidays and should not be berated for it.

" Nobody has suggested that. There are much more sophisticated and responsive models that are possible such as staggered terms, summer schools tailored towards particular interests or interventions etc."

Plenty of summer schools exist. The only problem is that parents have to pay for them. Having children is expensive and the costs of childcare can be antisipated.

Many teachers are working parents. Contray to popular belief teachers don't take a vow of celibacy or don't have childcare issues themselves. Believe or not many teachers use childminders, nurseries, after school care or even holiday clubs! Working in a school is not child friendly during term time or if you have a sick child.

Schools need to attract the best people to be teachers.

I had never thought about it that way.

The fact that teachers can pile up their working hours in term and then take 13 weeks off to look after their own children means that other parents are unable to work in low wage jobs because they can't afford childcare is a true fact. I wonder how big an impact on the economy, crime and the educational attainment of children in poor families that has?

Its easy to see why there is so much resentment about how the school year works and why it tends to be expressed as resentment about teachers long holidays. Its not that parents think teachers should work longer or harder.

They just resent being told that teachers have an untouchable work year that is so out of step with the rest of the working world that it effectively prevents some parents going to work. This is especially so in poor families that really need the extra income.

That is quite troubling for society.

I am not saying that teachers deserve a rest any more than anyone else. But I am saying that I agreed to do the job because I understood that I was getting a certain number of weeks holiday with my children. Therefore it is quite understandable if I no longer want to do the job if my conditions are drastically altered.

exotic, my point as I'm sure you realize, is that the money is there when the government thinks the cause is worthwhile. In my belief this cause is more worthwhile than the Olympics opening ceremony and free schools. I have written to my MP but my point is that teachers need to fight for their kids and ensure they have the best education, welfare and opportunties and I think holiday reform is part of that.

When I started teaching I didn't get TAs, there were no computers, everything was written by hand and yet the job was much more enjoyable and you didn't have the long hours. I wouldn't mind if it was better but it isn't- my old pupils seem to be doing pretty well in life.

Ah, you see Arisbottle, the reason I became a teacher was to make a difference - the maximum difference possible - to the children that I teach. And I have perhaps spent too long working with the type of children who do worse than nothing during the long holidays to think that 'doing my best for them' should mean me having 6 weeeks off....

I would only suggest that if some schools move in this way that all should - then the 'teachers' childcare problem' will obviously go away as all schools would no longer have the long holidays to cover...

"Personally I would have no problem working for more weeks of the year if the rest of the hours were sensible. I would willingly do it if I could get to school at 8am, work through to 6pm and then go home and leave it all,and if a weekend was all mine and I could keep on top of the work that way. I can't see it happening."

This.

"teachers need to fight for their kids and ensure they have the best education, welfare and opportunties and I think holiday reform is part of that."

Nope. Sorry. My job is to teach.

Not to right all the wrongs of society and be a warrior for social justice. That's what MPs are for.

Outside of MN I do not think I have ever experienced any kind of resentment about my job, although of course they could all just be waiting until I leave the room.

It makes no difference to your children whether I work 14 hours a day during term time and then nothing in the holiday or if I work a day hour day and then do my planning and marking in the holiday. In fact that is not true, because I work such long hours my students get their work back quickly and therefore they benefit from the way I work. They also have a teacher in the room who absolutely adores her job, that counts for a lot.

But heggiehog, there are so many other jobs where an 8-6 life with no work to take home and a free weekend is an impossible pipe dream - but none of them get 13 weeks' holiday.....

The bottom line is that if you take away the holidays then teachers will leave- many of the best teachers. Many have left already- I have - because I wanted a life.

And what's so special about British children and teachers that they need 13 weeks of rest where other kids and teachers and professions don't? It's baffling.

But many other countries have more than this!!

'But I am allowed to say that I would not want to lose my holidays and should not be berated for it.'

I don't think I am berating you for it. It makes absolute sense for teachers and doctors to protect a perk of the job just as you would fight against pension reform and pay cuts. My point is that it's up to governments to make these decisions so that individuals don't have to but I would like to think that teachers would be open to working with working parents and also open to changes that would ultimately benefit sutdents and society.

I suppose that I would hope that in an ideal world if teachers themselves led the change they could make it advantageous for themselves as well as the other people involved.

And teachers are there to teach- not to fight for government money.

' I wonder how big an impact on the economy, crime and the educational attainment of children in poor families that has?'

It's huge. This is largely where I'm coming from (and frankly I'm disappointed that so many teachers don't even seem to acknowledge or care about this).

This is why I think changing the school year would be an investment to the economy and in all sorts of other ways.

The govt chose to introduce free nursery care for 3 year olds for the same reason so it's not 'cloud cuckoo land'. Governments can and should act altruistically but they also understand that there are huge, huge social and econnomic advantages to parents being able to work (hence tax credits etc).

Morebeta,

Thank you for your post - for taking the time to step back from the minutiae and look at the issue clearly.

Is it better for some teachers to leave their jobs, or for many people who can only earn minimum wage to be unable to work at all because teachers take the holidays that they do? It's not clear cut, is it?