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Original poster

Those of you in favour of grammar schools, come and tell me what to say to my Ds...

999 replies

seeker · 19/08/2012 10:34

He woke up crying in the night because the reality had just hit him that he won't be going to school with his close friends in September because he failed the 11+ in September. "I can't be very bright, can I mum, or I would have passed" " no, it was just one of those things-you're going to a good school, you'll be fine" "I know- but if i was clever I'd be going to school with X and Y" "You are clever- look at your SATs-you'll be in the top set at the high school because of those" " it's not SATS that are important, though, it's the 11+"

Do you want to have more kids feeling like that? Then campaign for more grammar schools,

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 20/08/2012 23:06

Grammar schools can, I think, be havens for highly intelligent children with dyspraxia, dyslexia or aspergers, for example, but I don't think that is what they were designed for.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 20/08/2012 23:06

Fair enough Teacher, but in my ds's class of 29 there are two children with ASD, one who has hearing difficulties and one who is a carer to his disabled Mum.

In the class where I am a TA, we have two children who are likely to have SEN, but they are little and as yet undiagnosed.

I would say that GSs often have a tendancy to have children with ASD and social communication difficulties.

MordionAgenos · 20/08/2012 23:06

@rabbit actually, if the small subset of DD1's SSGS that Im now oretty familiar with (shes just finished Y9) is representative (it probably isn't) it's a school for the oddballs and previously bullied. She certainly fits both categories. She and all her friends are now ridiculously happy and fulfilled at school having previously been pretty miserable in their many different primary schools.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 20/08/2012 23:07

Cross posted!

scarlettsmummy2 · 20/08/2012 23:08

Seeker- not all children can cope with all subjects. That is life. I went to a grammar, chose all three separate sciences, couldnt cope and got a d in physics and c in chemistry (15 years ago). I simply wasn't good enough at Maths. I did however get A grades in English, English lit, history, geography, HE and French, so I wasn't taking a grammar place I didn't deserve. I can totally see why secondary schools wouldn't be in a rush to offer triple award science, or two second languages as opposed to one.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 20/08/2012 23:09

Rabbitstew, I find your post at 23.02 to be quite nasty. No need for that.

scottishmummy · 20/08/2012 23:10

if he'd passed 11+ would he babe gone gs
he's not compelled sit 11+,given disappointment he clearly picked up you value it
could he not have elected to go non selective high school surely

you're all over the shop
gutted son failed an exam you hold no ideological value in?
and now you're complaining?why?

MordionAgenos · 20/08/2012 23:12

@rabbit actually, I strongly suspect that is exactly what they were designed for. After all, the comic book grammar school stereotype from the 50s is a geeky, bespectacled, possibly autistic likely dyspraxic (useless at organised ball-game sport) boy or girl, is it not?

rabbitstew · 20/08/2012 23:12

My experience of my primary school in a grammar school area was that I didn't get bullied until the 11 plus year, and any bullying that went on from then on was related solely to the growing awareness of the children around me that some of us were supposedly "different" from the others. All of a sudden I was posh, stuck up and, apparently, thought I was really clever.

rabbitstew · 20/08/2012 23:14

Outraged - it was merely a sign of my frustration that people refuse to be specific as to what they really mean by choosing the top 5% and why.

Original poster
seeker · 20/08/2012 23:15

Scottishmummy- if you actually read what I said you'd understand. But you can't be bothered- you'd rather comment on what you think I've said.

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 20/08/2012 23:16

MordionAgenos - I think grammar schools tended to have that stereotype to differentiate them from the proper, sporty public schools that turned out real men...

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 20/08/2012 23:17

The top 5% on academic intelligence.

Why? Because people in that catergory often fit the stereotype mentioned above by Mordion, and they do not tend to do well socially in large comprehensives.

scottishmummy · 20/08/2012 23:18

you're all over the shop
teach your son life has ups and downs

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 20/08/2012 23:18

Wow, you're really on a roll Hmm

katiebdee · 20/08/2012 23:21

Eleven plus selection is a nonsense. Where we live many children sit tests for two different areas and it's common for children to be "deemed selective" in one area and not in the other (and not always the same one or the other..)

rabbitstew · 20/08/2012 23:21

My two dss would be ideally suited to a grammar school education - it would suit the way they learn and think to a tee (and would do wonders for my ds1's self-esteem, since he so suits the 1950s comic book ideal), just as it suited me.

rabbitstew · 20/08/2012 23:23

Unfortunately, the grammar school places do not always go to the children who would most benefit from them. But then how could they, when selection is made at the age and in the way that it is?

scottishmummy · 20/08/2012 23:24

if he'd passed would you have sent him to gs?
why sit a test you're so vehemently opposed to
it's not compulsory sit 11+

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 20/08/2012 23:25

I could agree that the places don't neccesarily go to the children who would most benefit from them, but then that's why we either need to change the selection process or have more places available. That's not a reason for them to cease to exist.

Original poster
seeker · 20/08/2012 23:26

Remind me- what are these academic subjects that grammar school kids do that high school kids don't?

Is it possible that some of us are working on a slightly outdated view of grammar/secondary modern schools? It's not Latin at one and metal work at the another nowadays, you know!

OP posts:
scarlettsmummy2 · 20/08/2012 23:32

In northern Ireland secondary school children do not do three separate sciences for gcse, and they don't do two second languages, and many children don't do a gcse in a second language. Secondary schools offer the same subjects but they are not all taught to the same level.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 20/08/2012 23:32

What are the differences in subjects offered between the two schools in your situation Seeker?

Like I already said, for us there are way more subjects on offer at the comp than the GS, and I would have thought it would be simelar at a high school?

scottishmummy · 20/08/2012 23:34

no state grammar schools in Scotland
Jordanhill grant maintained independent selective
and private schools

rabbitstew · 20/08/2012 23:34

Outraged - that's precisely my point, but you won't be drawn on what sort of selection process you are really looking for and why (even when I try to outrage people enough to be honest as to what they think a grammar school should be looking for and providing that a well run comprehensive school cannot provide). Are you wanting schools for bright children that need protecting from the seemier, crueller side of life that you think other people have the tools to cope with? Are less bright children just less sensitive in general, so that nastiness and bullying to them is like water off a duck's back?