I send my child to private school because....?

[jabed]

Well, I don?t actually, I just work in one. But it seems to be a constant source of questioning on MN and given the current news articles (I have been reading the DM and Tory graph online) about how many of our left wing leaders hypocritically claim to be egalitarian and socialist whilst buying education for their children , or have had education paid for by their own parents. I just wondered, what is it we expect from education, and why is it some of us are willing to pay for whatever that is and how they see that as worthy of their money.

There you go. :)

Did you go to a comp, seeker?

They didn't exist in my school days. But as I keep saying, our own educational experiences are the worst possible guide to what we should do for our own children- the past is another country and things were done differently now.

What do I want from a school which state school parents don't? I've not idea. They certainly don't seem to want contacts, parents they have things in common with and nice grounds to the same extent I do but that is very low on my list anyway.

I quite like buying segregation in a sense from those with a lower IQ and I have never lived anywhere with grammar schools even when I was 10 years old (and I don't mean segregation by setting within a school of children of all abilities. I mean the whole school is people who have passed an exam to get in etc).

What seems quite clear on the thread is that the paying parents think they are getting massive extra benefits for their chidlren and are happy and the state school parents are happy too and as I said above I love that we have so many different types of school and choice and rights to home educate etc. We are very lucky to have the variety in the UK.

The idea that one's children are so lacking in vitality and spirit of their own that they have to be shielded from a miasma of lack of ambition in others both sad and strangely Victorian.

I have far greater faith in my children to be able to achieve their ambitions. I am also quite certain that their ambitions are not being 'contaminated' by others' lack of ambition. If my O level Biology still holds good, my DDs wont get pregnant simply by attending a school where there is a high teenage pregnancy rate. It doesnt work like that!

It doesnt matter to DD1 that her school has a 4% EBAC rate if she already has an A at A level in a MFL (stealth boast). No one comes to the house and tears up the certificate just because it isnt average for the school.

Well Xenia if you love that variety so bleeding much, could you perhaps just for a little while stop being quite so rude about state schools, please?

The post above is more than usually obtuse, but there you go.

Well said GnomeDePlume. I have faith in my DCs-I would think that I had done a poor job of parenting if they could be so easily influenced.

" plenty of those things I listed are not what state parents want anyway."

Xenia- I was referring to the above comment from you when I asked my "what do you want from. School that state shoal parents don't. It's a bit odd that you asya you don't know what those things are

Xenia - you talk so much about IQ, anyone would think you view the majority of the population as being practically another species. And we all know the logical conclusion of that sort of point of view.

IQ isn't all important-some people with high IQs can be fairly useless at emotional intelligence, practical issues, holding down jobs etc.

Having read Xenia's list several times (I almost know it by rote now, Gove would be so pleased!) in fact she is right, quite a lot of what is on her list I dont want to pay for:

1. Even if I could afford it, I dont like the idea of buying privilage for my DCs.
2. None of my DCs are ever likely to bother the Olympic selection committees
3. Two of my DCs are interested in music and study in their own time musical instruments of their own choice. I am not going to inflict my taste on them.
4. We live in a rural county and have English Heritage cards, I dont need to send DCs to a private school to look at nice countryside and buildings, I can find these on my own (and they do generally look better when not cluttered up with school children)
5. A big no from me for single sex education
6. My children are sufficiently robust to be able to make their own decisions without me pointing out the 'nice' children
7. From experience accents come and go, I wouldnt pay for one
8. One of the useful things about having DCs at a comp at the errrr lower end of the market is that the school is excellent at dealing with bullies and disruption generally and doesnt have to care that horrid Henry is the son of a major donor to the school
9. Individualism isnt an exclusive preserve of the private sector.

10. I wouldnt buy an island if I could afford one!

Or lack any sort of affect, empathy, humility, ability to grapple with complex arguments, modesty ...

So what's the problem? Parents in both sectors are happy - result. No problem at all. No debate. Everything in the garden is rosy and the chidlren whose parents pay (the 8%) will continue to get 50% of the best university places and more of the best jobs than the entire 92% of the state schoolers and everyone is happy.

I started this thread but have not said what kind of school I would favour or my reasons, although I have been accused of favouring private education. I do work in the private sector but I have spent many more years working in state schools - ancient and modern.

Although my bias has been assumed I would point out that when my DS first started school I sent him to a local state school. I quickly found out that some factors there were worrying and others sadly missing. I then looked at private schooling but I do not send my DS to a private school. We home educate. My DS is August born and so this presents some problems and always will. He also tall and (not wanting to lack modesty) he is a bright child and has been mistaken too often for one older than his years and treated that way. I know this problem because I have always been treated as older than I am. Its fine but emotionally a small child is a small child even if academically a prodigy. I am convinced bright children need more protection than most.

I think those lucky enough to have state provision they are happy with then that?s fine. Lucky you, you can have your DC's education off the back of the tax payer (for it is not ?free").

Some are not able to make a choice. They cannot afford it. I feel most sorry for them, especially if like me they found themselves with schools which do
not hit the mark.

DW and I have yet to decide what we will be doing when the time comes for DS to attend formal school. We both feel he should at some point do so. We do not feel it appropriate to send him to boarding prep or any boarding. That?s just a personal thing for us.

However, there are some things that will influence our decisions. Some may be mentioned already, some not. Without reasons and no reference to which secotr we may prefer, I will I will just list what we are looking for:

a) I want a school which is free from the constraints of the national curriculum. I also want one free from the ethos of constant levels and testing. I am also concerned about some other aspects of education in state schools (eg the nature and method and early introduction of sex education).

b) I would like my DS educated with other DC's who are like him. That is, DC from families who share my values and attitudes and expectations

c) I would also like him to experience a diversity of cultures so he will be able to mix with others in all walks of life and different cultures.

d) I want my DC educated, not pushed.

f) I do realise that he has certain interests (eg music) which may need nurturing.

jabed how old is your ds?

Sounds about right, considering only 10% of the population earn >£45K.
So it appears that the higher earners (in general) use privately educate their children.

90% of the population, on incomes less than £45K don't have the means to do that.

My DS will be 6 at the end of this month ( August) . He should be entering year 2 in state school in September. He will not be doing so. I will HE until he is at least 7.

I was looking at the list and:

1. I am against buying privilege in any walk of life and so it would be hypocritical to do it for my family.
2. Two of my DCs are generally sporty but they are never going to be at National level whatever school they attend-it isn't important enough to them.

3.Only one of them is musical-but again only as recreational.

1. The school isn't particularly pleasant but they have playing fields and space and are bordered by a river, fields and woods and we live in a village anyway.
2. I have been to mixed and single sex schools myself and much preferred mixed-I certainly think that having DSs they are much better off with girls in the school-you don't get those dreadful comments with marks out of 10 etc that you get in all male ones.

6.They have chosen 'nice' friends for themselves from the age of 5yrs-i.e.ones whose families have similar aspirations to us, because that is what they are comfortable with. 7.They speak in the same way as we do. They have dropped 't's but we always ridicule and it is a bit of an 'in' joke-they wouldn't do it when it matters.

1. The comprehensive does not tolerate disruption or bullies. One DS once had a problem with a joke that went wrong-the boy was suspended for 2 days and we were assured that he would have been expelled had it been deliberate. DS was quite happy with that and there were no repercussions -it was the sort of stupid thing that could have happened in any school. A maths class had disruption problems and I phoned up and they sorted it.

9.I am always more than a bit surprised that it is thought that the state sector doesn't allow for individualism. 10. I like to visit a different place every time for holidays and so wouldn't buy an island however much money I earned-the only one that would appeal would be one on Derwentwater.

I had assumed that you had more than one DC, jabed and that they were already at an independent school. I am not at all sure that you are going to be any happier with the private sector-it may not live up to your expectations.

How will you control whom your ds meets at formal school and what their parents do? How can you know that they will have the exact same values as you? If you want him to be educated within your narrow social circle then how will he meet those who are educationally, socially and culturally different from him?

I'd also add that it is very very difficult to control whom they make friends with at school and impossible to make them think in the way you may prefer. Ds is 8, knows his own mind and is very vocal in expressing it. I have no idea how I would try to control him in the way you are hoping to control your ds.

My db was (well still is) August born and tall (6'4" by the time he was 15) and very bright. None of that makes him special or require him to be educated in a different way. In fact my parents did the opposite to what you are considering for your ds. They did their best to ensure db was given as normal life as possible, and succeeded albeit clothes shopping proved challenging!

There is, like it or not, more choice within the private sector. They are not constrained or constantly affected by the varying political programmes and educational flavours of the month.

That is not the same as saying I am biased toward the private sector or that I will place my DS there eventually.

Ds is at private school and the only thing I can say I truly have in common with all the other parents is the ability to pay school fees!

I think that when you actually get into looking at your choice in the private sector you may well continue with HE.

Most private schools are very constrained indeed. Maybe not by the NC but certainly financially in wanting to have good results to maintain the school roll. You must see that if you work in a private school. I can't think of a single private school that doesn't seek to attract parents by results.

I think there is a common error made in equating diversity of culture with values and attitudes.

In the school where I work we have a broad spectrum of pupils from many different cultures and ethnic groups. However, their parents all share the same set of values as I do. In that respect we are not diverse at all

I am not trying to control anything. I am trying to find a best fit.

How do you really know that all your pupils parents do share the same values?