I send my child to private school because....?

[jabed]

Well, I don?t actually, I just work in one. But it seems to be a constant source of questioning on MN and given the current news articles (I have been reading the DM and Tory graph online) about how many of our left wing leaders hypocritically claim to be egalitarian and socialist whilst buying education for their children , or have had education paid for by their own parents. I just wondered, what is it we expect from education, and why is it some of us are willing to pay for whatever that is and how they see that as worthy of their money.

There you go. :)

Its the incessant digs I dislike the idea that parents who send their children to boarding school are callous and uncaring, the we should want our children to be part of the "community," the endless comments about the non existent old boys network, just because our politicians are out of touch with the real worlds that the same must apply to all children at independent schools, the endless tedious stories about how the BIL DB or DH were badly treated/bullied/abused and are now dysfunctional sociopaths and that this must apply to those in the current system. The implication is that as parents we are incapable of sorting the wheat from the chaff and don't have our individual children's best interests at heart, that having put our children in these schools we leave them there even if there begging to come home because their heads are being flushed down the loos and they're being buggered senseless in the dorms every night and beaten by the the sub warden in between lessons.
I doubt one of you who oppose independent ed and endlessly regale other MNetters with tales of how your own state school is at least as good as Eton/Westminster etc have never even stepped foot inside schools like this let alone had your DC there to experience the actual reality of what these schools offer so are speaking from a position of complete ignorance.
Having said all of this in a way seeker I can understand why you are so against the sort of education that these top schools provide it is so far removed in terms of quality and opportunities from that provided either by the state sector or or those "little two bit" independent schools you mention. That a small group of children should have so much. But rather than seeing these schools as a blot perhaps you should be looking at them as centres of excellence; what can be achieved and that maybe some or in fact all of what they do can repeated in the state sector.

@meta. Well- I've always wanted to be a move angel!

Toby Young, obviously!

Of course not all parents with children at boarding school are callous and uncaring. Some of them are, though. There's a sample of most types of personality and parenting style in most schools. Some parents with children at state school are callous and uncaring - but I dislike the incessant digs that all parents who send their children to state schools must be putting something other than what they perceive to be their children's best interests first to have ended up sending them there.

Thing I found odd about the comments about the John O'Farrell article here and in the Guardian is the lack of reference to the fact that he is the same man who wrote May Contain Nuts - hilarious and clear to me from reading that and much of his other writing that he is an excellent and very amusing writer BTW - which was an attack not only on the private system but on se;lective education generally, which includes grammar schools of course. I read it (maybe down to my social circle/interests?) as an attack on the kind of self-obsessed London-based parents trying for Tiffins etc as much as private schools.

So he is not in favour of state oer private - he is in favour of non-selective over selective - important distinction. I'd imagine he dislikes grammar schools as much as selective private schools. That said, despite being a big fan of grammar schools myself, I thought his wry look at the neuroses surrounding the 11+ was spot on and v entertaining - a salutary lesson to all of us, state or private fans, not to disappear up our own backsides too much!

And yes, the beer and curries was a joke to anyone who didn't bother to read the article - rather a good one, I thought. Laughing at the stereotypes but pointing out that school fees cash can and should be spent on FUN!

"Of course not all parents with children at boarding school are callous and uncaring. Some of them are, though."
rabbitstew do you or have you ever had your DC(s) in a boarding school?

@happygardening I do not endlessly regale other MNetters with tales of how the school DD1 attends is at least as good as Eton/Westminster however the official league tables (not the makey uppy FT ones) say that it is rather better so why wouldn't I mention that occasionally to refute Xenia and her 'all state schools must be poo' schtick? At least I don't talk about the cost of the things I provide for my children incessantly. The narrative that all state schools are poor and that only Eton/Westminster/NLCS/St Pauls are any good should be challenged because it simply isn't true. those schools are excellent and better than most schools in the world probably not just the country but they aren't better than all schools and a small number of the schools which they aren't better than are state grammars. That's something that should be celebrated by everyone, not denied.

O'Farrell is against selective schools and of course thats up to him and he is doing what is right for his children but many children thrive in selective schools so its impossible to make generalisations.

As far as Im aware the results for places like Westmister etc are significantly better than any state school for the simple reason that they are mega selective. But independent ed is not all about results the sort of bright children that go to schools like westminster would probably do as well in any reasonable state school. I know of an independent school where the results put it in the top 5 but I personally am not that impressed with the other things it offers.

Threads like this are fun and come down to;

1. private schools ofer a superior experience that you ignorant plebs cannot begin to comprehenend - happy gardening

1. private schools are better as they will turn your dds into naice gels who can ski whilst singing Latin mdrigals - so ladies get a good job quick or fail your kids! - Xenia

1. oh woe is me, I failed the 11+ - jabed, exoticfruits et al

1. selection is evil, whether in the private or state sectors - comprehensive schools = perfection on earth - seeker

1. grammar schools offer the best things private schools do but without the fees - me, Metabilis etc

Repeat ad infinitum.

Almost any thread on private/selective/grammar/11+ can be turned into these happy and largely mutually exclusive positions.

OK, that's us done then. :)

Apologies to any (all?) I have misrepresented. :)

Metabilis3 my DS was offered a place at one of the top 5 performing grammar schools in the UK we carefully considered it leaving aside the crappy journey to get to it the results were not on examination as good as his school nor were the opportunities; those other things that we are looking for in a school. I have no doubt that he could achieve the same results in our excellent local comp but it is not just results that we are paying for.

@happygardening The official table for last year's A/AS results is here

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16730014

You will see Westminster is rather lower in the table than many other schools. Bot independent and state. I know the FT has it's own tables where you get extra points for being a private school but the official tables which actually only look at verified exam results will do me.

I think I summarised that rather well before you two had even posted...

I've just looked up the results for the grammar school where we were offered a place it comes higher up than my DS's school on the BBC league table but according to their own tables only 23% achieve As at a level where at my DS's school 51% achieved A's at a level. Westminster sent over 50% to Oxbridge I doubt any state school comes anywhere near this and at St Pauls over 90% get A's at A level again this is significantly more the above mentioned grammar.
But as I've repeatedly said its not all about results the best independent schools are so so much more than excellent exam results.

@happy I think it's quite obvious that it's not just results you are paying for. :) And that's your choice and I don't think anyone could reasonably claim you were either callous or unconcerned with your DC's welfare.

happygardening - my dh went to public boarding school. I know people with children in boarding schools. And even if I didn't, I would still know that it is not the case that 100% of parents with children at these schools are caring and loving.

meta, that appears to be a news article rather than an official table. If you go to the Department for Education's tables here (about as official as you can get), they order schools alphabetically and leave it to the user to decide whether to re-order them based on average point score per student (all grammar schools at the top), or average point score per exam entry (all independent schools at the top).

What this tells me is that independents get higher grades, but grammars take more subjects (notably critical thinking and general studies). It's rather subjective which you say is better - for me I'd prefer higher grades.

For me, I'd rather stupidly competitive people didn't bury their noses in statistics looking for proof of the brilliance of their decisions. After all, it's not just for the academic education that people choose particular schools....

Metabilis3 I dont claim to be an expert on league tables perhaps you can explain to me the discrepancy in the BBC league tables form the actual results published on the various schools websites. I am genuinely curious as there does seem to be a significant variation on a theme not just in these tables but others.
Your right I'm not callous or unconcerned with my DS's welfare and from extensive experience of not only having DS's at boarding school but also working in them that although rabbitstew states that "Of course not all parents with children at boarding school are callous and uncaring. Some of them are, though." IME there are some are wide range of parents at boarding schools and some are pretty ghastly but I have never met any parents who are callous or uncaring in fact quite the opposite.

rabbitstew I accept that your DH had a crap time but as I've frequently said boarding schools have changed significantly especially in the last 15 - 20 years. They have had to if they are going to attract modern 21st century parents who are much more hands on and involved with their DC's lives and education.
You are right about statistics if you very carefully select the best students provide them with quality teaching, outstanding facilities and in most cases either mega pushy parents or mega pushy parents ensuring that the chosen school is pushing their DC and enormously high expectations from both the school and home then your going to get jaw dropping results.

Hear, hear,rabbitstew. :)

Am with Xenia here too - isn't it nice we're all happy.

Actually, i've been less happy with the academic side of my dcs' primary education but then, as rabbitstew says, I chose it for other (non-academic) reasons which outweigh that for me at primary level.

I'm sure we're all lovely caring parents or we wouldn't be on here obsessing about our dcs' schools. Well, actually, we might be outside, playing with our dcs - maybe we are all callous after all...?

Lucky you, then, happygardening. Mind you, I don't think callous and uncaring parents always wear that badge in public. And it depends on whether you think finding your children a disappointment to you because even an excellent education can't seem to put them right counts as callous and uncaring or not. If it does, then I promise these parents exist and some of them send their children to boarding school.

agree rabbit. A lot of what the league tables tell you (whichever way you look at them) is how selective a school is. They don't tell you how well your child will do at that school.

??? My dh enjoyed boarding school, happygardening. My db didn't enjoy his school.

That's what the value added score is supposed to do, gelatinous.