Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

SAHM or private school for DC(s)

819 replies

Gatorade · 19/06/2012 14:54

I have a 4 month old DD and I am starting to think about what I want to do in relation to going back to work and future school options (these decisions appear to linked as affordability starts to come into the equation).

We could comfortably afford for me to be a SAHM and send DD to a private school (well pre-school nursery first, but then through the private school system), this again would be ok for a second DC. The difficulty would be if we have more than 2 DCs, if we are lucky enough we would like 3 or 4.

If we were to have 3 DCs I would need to work at least 3 to 4 days a week to ensure that we could maintain our lifestyle (which is quite basic really, we are not extravagant people) and fund the school fees from earned income.

I am not too worried about my own future career, I feel I have achieved what I wanted to in terms of work before I had DD and if I don't have a professional career again in the future (if, for example I take 10+ years out of the workplace) this wouldn't concern me.

So my question, what would be more beneficially to my DD and future children, having a SAHM or going to private school?

OP posts:
wordfactory · 26/06/2012 10:38

On and of course by pointing out the obvious. That their father appears to be able to work and be a decent parent. It's really not beyond the wit of man.

Bonsoir · 26/06/2012 10:40

I wasn't talking about my family, but about families in general where many children (DSs, because that was your concern) have experienced both a SAHM and a WOHM. TBH, I haven't encountered an awful lot of DCs who, with experience of both, are desperate for a WOHM but I have encountered a lot who found their lives an awful lot nicer with a SAHM or PT working mother.

You write about bringing DCs up with beliefs as if it were unverifiable like belief in God. But it isn't and DCs, IME, tend to use their own experience to make up their own minds.

yellowhouse · 26/06/2012 10:43

It is worth noting, just for the sake of a balanced argument, that a lot of working parents do do the things mentioned by houseworkprocrastinator. Parents' evenings happening to be in the evening so I have always attended, my DH is a local councillor and we are both involved in a lot of community stuff (all weekend/evenings), either of us always attends school stuff (assemblies, etc), the school governors at our school including the chair all happen to be working parents and so is the chair and treasurer of the PTA.

seeker · 26/06/2012 10:50

It's not just Xenia. At least two other posters have made similar points. I am not surprised at Xenia- she has a perpetual bee in her bonnet and dollar signs for eyes, but similar views have been expressed.

wordfactory · 26/06/2012 10:52

Bonsoir I think it is very different in France. Women there are given positive messages about working all the time. Here, working mothers are expected to feel guilty and hopeless.

Just a small selction:

www.telegraph.co.uk/family/8758117/Does-day-care-damage-your-baby-One-mothers-view....html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2122509/Half-unhappy-failing-balance-work-family-life.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8408503/Working-mothers-spend-81-minutes-a-day-looking-after-their-children.html

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/nurseries-can-damage-your-toddlers-says-parenting-guru-6109335.html

It really is relentless.

Personally, I have no axe to gring here. My working has little impact upon my DC. No nurseries, nannies etc.

The way I see it, the media fuel the idea that no women can ever be happy working and having DC. I ifnd it so very odd considering the majority of women do work.

designerbaby · 26/06/2012 10:54

I think what Xenia is saying is that women in the workplace face challenges and assumptions that men don't, usually. In my experience it's usually not open hostility, it's more subtle than that...

For example, implying to a mother returning to work after maternity leave will a) be torn apart by leaving her children, (it was hard, initially, but I was keen to get back to doing something I love) b) need a few moths to "get back into it" (I had a baby, not a labotomy, it took longer to get my email set up than it took for me to "get back into it"), c) that I was only returning to work because I HAD to, and 'wasn't that a shame that I couldn't stay home with my children' (without questioning whether this was, in fact what I wanted. It wasn't.). All of these statements were made to me, and neither would have been to a man in a similar position.

And when I resigned to start up my own business, the email from my direct boss to the company said that I was "leaving to be a full time Mum." Suffice to say there was a swift reply to the whole company informing them in no uncertain terms that this wasn't what I would be doing.

(Actually, I do feel I'm a "full time mum", I don't stop being a mum when I'm at work. I am at ALL times a mum, a designer, a wife, a human being. I think about my children constantly, even (especially) when I am not with them. He meant a SAHM, and that I wouldn't be WOH. He knew very well that this wasn't the case but chose, deliberately or unconsciously, to project his own beliefs onto my situation.)

And I think that having more women continuing with their careers is imperative to this kind of attitude become less prevalent, and I think that's important. that these kinds of assumptions/views are challenged. The fewer women there are in the workplace, then obviously the less likely that is to happen.

However I don't think the way to do this is to belittle the choices made by those who stay at home. I think it woud be enormously helpful if more flexible working practices were adopted by more companies to enable women to be effective in their jobs and be available for their children. But again, this is only going to happen with more working mothers demanding that it happen.

Or if there were more women setting up on their own, and demonstrating that flexible working doesn't mean inefficient working or a lower standard of results in any way. (This is, in part, what I'm trying to do, actually)

I think it woud be helpful if there was 'parental leave' rather than just 'maternity leave' so that the people taking the time off to be with children when they're ver young could be men or women, thereby not making assumptions about who it should be.

At the moment many women who want to return to work face an impossible choice because doing so requires more sacrifices for them as a mother and for their family and children than they are prepared to make. So I fully understand why many would choose not to.

I also understand that some women welcome and embrace the opportunity to take some time out of their job/career to stay at home to be a SAHM/home-maker/housewife/however you want to describe it.

Personally, as far as the children are concerned, I think there are pro's and cons to each way of doing it, SAHM or WOHM and that children are not particularly advantaged/disadvantage either way... I don't think that's the issue, and that trying to argue which option is best for the children is only likely to lead to conflict, and we ought not to be belittling either camp, or claiming that one kind of mothering is better than another.

But I think, necessarily, the more women who choose, or are forced by logistics or finances, to stay at home, the fewer women there will be on the workplace, and the harder it will be to force the change in working practices and models which would enable more women who would like to continue to work to do so. And I would like my daughters to have the choice, and better options than many WOHM do at the moment.

Because lets face it, the men aren't going to do it for us, are they?

db
xx

wordfactory · 26/06/2012 10:55

And of course DC will make their own mind up.

But a lifetime of drip feeding a message will have an effect.

Just as our drip feeding messages vis a vis education/healthy eating/work ethic etc all do have a long term impact. So too will messages about sexism and working parents.

Bonsoir · 26/06/2012 10:55

I think you should upgrade your reading material, wordfactory! I read the FT and The Economist with occasional forays into the Telegraph online and I don't encounter any kind of prejudice against working women. However, the Economist does quite a good line in analysis of best outcomes for all constituents in society and highlights the conflicts of interest.

Bonsoir · 26/06/2012 10:56

I think it is very wrong indeed to try to inculcate beliefs in DCs. You should know better, wordfactory. Give them opportunities to examine the evidence for all sorts of ways of living and let them make their own informed decision. And respect it.

duchesse · 26/06/2012 10:57

Thanks for those Word. It makes me [grr] that it's all about mothers. Of course this government has a barely concealed agenda to put as many mothers back at home as possible, to reduce the pressure on jobs and get them back where they should in Tory fossils' minds, working for nothing running the Big Society. Witness the effect on mostly women of spending cuts in the public sector.

duchesse · 26/06/2012 10:59

Bonsoir the point is, whatever Word herself thinks that these "news"papers are read by a great many people, and the overall effect is to make women feel guilty about what they do, and make everybody demonise working mothers (not fathers, oh no).

seeker · 26/06/2012 11:00

It's also important to remember that we are talking about "privileged" people here. The vast majority of the working population do crap tedious jobs solely for the money. The island buyers are few and far between.

wordfactory · 26/06/2012 11:01

Heaven save me from The Economist. DH subscribes. I find it turgid Grin.

And to be honest the media message in the UK does not come from the FT or The Economist. Not a representative over view IYSWIM.

So I would still say, that taken as a body, the media in the UK is inherently antagonistic towards working mothers.

designerbaby · 26/06/2012 11:03

True, seeker so I amend my penultimate paragraph thus:

But I think, necessarily, the more women who choose, or are forced by logistics or finances, to stay at home, the fewer women there will be on the workplace, and the harder it will be to force the change in working practices and models which would enable more women who would like to continue to work or who need to work to do so.

db
xx

lambethlil · 26/06/2012 11:04

duchesse I think that bonsoir's point is that you are the primary influence, and although those opinions are out there, by reading and being seen to read the things Bonsoir does, you're modelling a better pattern.

You can counter the drip feeding, and I do acknowledge it's there, by showing open disdane for women's magazines, Kardashian type reality TV, etc.

lambethlil · 26/06/2012 11:06

And finding The Economist turgid and voicing that in front of your DCs is aligning yourself with the anti WOHM lobby.

amillionyears · 26/06/2012 11:07

wordfactory,i didnt realise you didnt agree with Xenia.
designerbaby,I agree with almost all your points.
I suppose what I have an issue with,is the literal amount of quality hours of mother child bonding,when the children are very young.And even to an extent,the literal number of the non quality hours,though I think that those could be done by the dad.
I am definitely of the opinion,that mothers on the whole,make better parents than men in the younger years.I think women on the whole have more empathy,and natural childhood development understanding to do with the early years of a childs life.

wordfactory · 26/06/2012 11:07

seeker you are absolutely right.

Most people, not just women, work in jobs not of their choosing in order to pay for their home, food etc.

duchesse · 26/06/2012 11:09

I can guarantee that most people are not reading the FT or the Economist. Whatever my personal view of the quality of the Daily Fail or the Torygraph, the point is that many people do read them, and many people support the beliefs they peddle. Most people obtain their beliefs from the printed press- if it's in print, it must be true, eh?

I model living feminism for my children quite without the need for written supports!

duchesse · 26/06/2012 11:10

Lamb, what? Eh?? Causation or correlation?

wordfactory · 26/06/2012 11:12

One of the reasons I'm glad xenia does post is that, though I do not agree with everything she says, it is great to have a female voice that says working and motherhood can work.

A small voice to counter the swathes of voices saying how dreadful it all is.

Chandon · 26/06/2012 11:14

Yes duchesse, we are all stupid, all of us, apart from you.

we take anything written black on white as the truth.

it must be annoying for you to live in a world where everyone else is dumb...or maybe it is great as you can feel superior?

I read DM (sleb gossip is fun), telegraph (not Murdoch owned, i can take some of the right-wingedness with a pinch of salt) and FT (weekend FT is v. good) or teh independent (bit boring, but...independent)

Metabilis3 · 26/06/2012 11:16

@Word, oh it's utterly dreadful Grin But the alternatives (other than winning the lottery) are worse. Grin

wordfactory · 26/06/2012 11:17

So you don't think that swathes of the population are influenced/manipulated by the press? That the media message is water off a duck's back?

If that's the case that why don't we just let Mr Murdoch buy them all? Close the Beeb and we can all watch Sky news.

Bonsoir · 26/06/2012 11:22

Friday morning (arrival of The Economist) and Saturday morning (FT Weekend edition) my favourite mornings of the week. I used to have a Figaro habit on Saturdays too, but DP refused to renew the subscription because he couldn't stand just how much I complained all weekend about its retrograde Gallic views.

Swipe left for the next trending thread