SAHM or private school for DC(s)

[Gatorade]

I have a 4 month old DD and I am starting to think about what I want to do in relation to going back to work and future school options (these decisions appear to linked as affordability starts to come into the equation).

We could comfortably afford for me to be a SAHM and send DD to a private school (well pre-school nursery first, but then through the private school system), this again would be ok for a second DC. The difficulty would be if we have more than 2 DCs, if we are lucky enough we would like 3 or 4.

If we were to have 3 DCs I would need to work at least 3 to 4 days a week to ensure that we could maintain our lifestyle (which is quite basic really, we are not extravagant people) and fund the school fees from earned income.

I am not too worried about my own future career, I feel I have achieved what I wanted to in terms of work before I had DD and if I don't have a professional career again in the future (if, for example I take 10+ years out of the workplace) this wouldn't concern me.

So my question, what would be more beneficially to my DD and future children, having a SAHM or going to private school?

I've just thought. There are women on mumsnet who presumably go out to work, but whose partners don't let them drive, or refuse to cook, or won't put their dirty clothes in the basket. Women who do all the emotionally work in a relationship. Women who appease and apologise and take responsibility for their partner's bad behaviour. Who smile indulgently at their partner's tantrums and juvenility. Who think it's somehow charming and sweet that he can't manage to buy sanitary towels without huge embarrassment and probably buying the wrong thing.

And people have the unmitigated gall to say that my mutually respectful, loving, co operative,"team work" model of family life is a bad example to my children? Really??????????

Metabilis3.
I'd like to see you tell my dd and her ds's before her that it wasn't my responsibility to pick her up from school. I don't think she'd appreciate me outsourcing her care to somebody else, and I'm not prepared to do it. So I don't give a stuff about yours or your dds corporate image or your battle with some men. And for the record I do spend most of my time with dcs, in fact unless they are at work or school or college, I will always be here. I love my children and don't want to miss out on them growing up. I don't have to work and its my choice what I do, so you do what you like and others do what they like. Its what women have fought for.

No way have women fought to be economically dependent slaves at home giving sex and cleaning and childcare services in return for money from men. Women fought to become doctors, leaders, soldiers and we continue that fight.

Will you accept that not all SAHMs are sex and housework slaves please?

That fallacy is getting boring.

Women fought/fight for freedom. You are denigrating the free choice of many women.

morethan the woman who fought for equality sure as shit didn't do it, so women like you can say you don't give a fuck about other females...

If I was as wealthy as my grandma was, I would choose the life she led: she had 5 children, she had a live in nanny & housekeeper and spent her life playing the violin, painting, writing and throwing parties. Yes that would be my ideal. All her children took huge inspiration from her many talents and pursuits. They all worshipped her.

In reality, or at least in my reality, I have to earn a living. I don't love my job, it's ok, but it's a professional job and it brings a salary which makes a difference to our lifestyle (mine and my children).

Wordfactory I had to read morethans post 3 times to work out what you're on about.

Spectacularly missing the point there.

@Seeker I invite you to read some of Morethanpotatoprints posts. Especially the one above where she seems to be saying she does her DCs homework for them. And then tell me that there aren't women on this thread who claim that practically everything they do is broadly to do with their DCs.

As I said upthread, so long as people make it clear this is an economic choice, or one derived from their own neuroses rather than an actual need of the DCs then fine. I have formed my own view of that sort of person, so will everyone else. Some - like the more strident on this thread - will probably think that's an excellent model. Others will think that it's not.

@Sarcalogos One of the things I think it is vital for a parent rather than someone else to do is to set a good example to their DCs. If you don't think that, then that is your prerogative, of course. And as I clearly said above, almost everyone pays tax - income taxes are not the only taxes there are. And very small children who don't buy stuff or ask for it to be bought (although obviously they do provoke economic activity) will grow up to be taxpayers and that is important too. Paying tax is incredibly important and I'm sure you didn't mean to imply it isn't.

@Xenia I'd actually love some time off from the fight to be honest, I'd like to think I'd earned a bit of shore leave, sadly economics and reality means that won't be happening any time soon if ever. And I certainly don't think SAHPs are sex slaves, that is just silly. But I do strongly feel that the only way we will get an equal society is if women do what is necessary to make it equal. We aren't being handed it on a plate.Most of it is a hearts and minds exercise and if young men are seeing a model of society where a woman stays and home whether tied to the sink or doing flower arranging, and is told that it's the best thing for the kids, why wouldn't they believe that? After all, few people believed it a century and a half ago, the reason so many people believed it after the second world war was because they were told from birth that this was the best model for society. The people doing the telling had an agenda, and it worked. For a while. It makes me sad to see some people chucking that away.

@seeker my beef is solely with SAHMs who claim that everything they do is necessary for the well being of their children, or that they couldn't bear to be away from their children to go do a job of work (and I know that at least one person in this thread both works full time and says she doesn't like being away from her kids and guess what, that's fine, that's how I feel, just, I have no choice). I was very clear that it was the SAHMs who think that their job is running round after the children all day to the extent of prearing their homework for them and there are people like that posting in this thread. And it's not unreasonable to disagree with that as a Good Thing.

@word it's OK I don't mind if someone on the internet doesn't give the mumps about me.

sarco she said she didn't give a stuff about other women's corporarte image or their batteles with some men (ie being discriminated against).

She doesn't give a shit what sexism other women face!

Because she thinks it's imperative that she spends every second with her DC.

And you think she'll raise an enlightned son? Really?

@Yellow me too (except swap violin for flute, recorders, accordion, singing....and just reading more of the books on my Big Pile of Books to Read). That would be my dream. But if I did that, I wouldn't claim that I was doing it 'for' my DCs (although I think it would give them a good idea of the important things in life, and of the benefits that economic success can bring). In fact that is how I spend a lot of my time when I'm not working. It's how we spend our time as a family. I have no problem with people who can afford to, not working. My problem is in how it can be presented, not in the actual fact of people icing their lives in the best way available to them. Because, as I have said at least once in this thread, I'm a work to live person, me. If I won the lottery I would certainly not be doing what I do now. as it happens not a lot of people can do what I do but I'm sure they would find someone else nearly as good. Possibly in some ways, better.

There are many ways of raising enlightened DCs. The very most important thing is for each of a DC's parents to be visibly contributing to their life and upbringing in significant ways. Paying the bills is significant, but so are care, concern, conversation, guidance, the broadening of horizons and the provision of opportunities.

meta I'm sure you're a big girl .

However, I was always brought up by my mum to think that women should support women. And that women who don't face rampant sexism, should stand up and be counted for those that do, because we have more of a voice.

So I do think it behoves us all to fight on for our daughters. And their duaghters.

And whilst I would not say that this means women should not be a SAHMs. I would say that if we do decide to give up work then we really need to consider the impact this has. Scrupulous honesty as opposed to self serving vague declaration sof freedom of choice.

We also need to ask ourselves about how we are bringing up the next generation of DC. Are we saying to them explicity or implicitly that good mothers don't work. Because if we are doing that, we are as guilty as every sexist pig out there of keeping other women in their place.

She doesn't give a 'stuff', about one particular women and her family.

I believe she was making the point that it isn't fair to expect her to sacrifice what she believes is best for her family for the sake of helping other women's standing in her particular office.

I think in all probability she will raise a son who knows what it is like to come from a happy home where everyone is valued and decisions are taken for the benefit if the family. im saying staying at home is one way of achieving this

Apologies for the rogue apostrophes/commas

Also, mothers who have to work to pay the bills do sometimes like to take the moral highground in order to feel better about themselves and shout very loudly about how their decision is the right one for every woman and every family.

It doesn't convince me, and it doesn't look good.

@Sarcalogos One of the things I think it is vital for a parent rather than someone else to do is to set a good example to their DCs. If you don't think that, then that is your prerogative, of course. And as I clearly said above, almost everyone pays tax - income taxes are not the only taxes there are. And very small children who don't buy stuff or ask for it to be bought (although obviously they do provoke economic activity) will grow up to be taxpayers and that is important too. Paying tax is incredibly important and I'm sure you didn't mean to imply it isn't.

I think women are entitled to stay at home if they want/can afford to.

I don't think you have to work in paid employment in order to set an positive example for your children.

I think paying tax is exceptionally important, and those who meet the criteria should pay it.

I don't think paying income tax is an indicator of self worth. Or a source of shame if you don't meet the criteria.

Clear enough?

@Bonsoir as it happens, I am also the main provider of concern (I worry for England, Olympic standard me), conversation (I also talk for England. And there's that shared interests thing - try as he might DH just isn't every going to want to talk to DS about the things that most interest him, similarly with DDs. That may change in the future and they all adore their dad but the stuff they mainly like to talk about is pretty much under the heading of 'mum's stuff' and is almost exclusively related to our geeky hinterland) and the provision of opportunities (DH would be happy to provide them with opportunities to do the stuff he thinks they should like. I provide them with the opportunities to do the stuff they do like - although he does too, it's not just me. I'm shit at cooking which is what they perceive to be the main component of care. But I'm good on cuddles.

I don't think it is particularly helpful to describe all WOHM as being completely uninvolved in any area other than paying the bills.

8sarco* of course staying at home is one way of achieving that.

However I do think if you SAH or do as I do and work from home around your DC, you do have a responsibility to ensure your DC realise it's not the only way.

For a start, our DDs may have to WOH, and how terrible will they feel if we have told them that good mothers don't do that?

Who is telling them that?

I haven't read any SAHMs advocating it as the only way.

It is the people insisting that a woman MUST work in any circumstance or she is somehow responsible for sexism towards other women I object to. Or insisting that there is no worth in the sah role.

You've never heard anyone on MN or in RL saying that staying at home is the best thing for DC? Really? Really?

You've never heard anyone slating nurseries/nannies/child minders?

You must not get out much.

Ah, but Bonsoir, Also, mothers who have to work to pay the bills do sometimes like to take the moral highground in order to feel better about themselves and shout very loudly about how their decision is the right one for every woman and every family.

I haven't done that. I have most definitely not done that. I have said that people who stay at home whether men or women should be honest about their choices and what they are actually doing. There is nothing remotely to be criticised or challenged when people stay at home for economic reasons - either because they ca't afford to work or because they can't afford not to. The problem arises when people make out that it's necessary to stay at home for the well being of their kids. And it just isn't - there is more than one way to make a casserole. The argument should only every be made on economic grounds - I can afford to, so my reasons are my own affair, or I can't afford not to so that's that. To imbue the economic decision with some kind of mystical earth mother properties is to do everyone a disservice, including the young people involved. If you are saying, as Seeker did effectively upthread, that you earned so much before than you can afford to take the scenic route now, then that's great, it gives a good example. If you are saying I have to stay at home for how can my children possibly use the internet by themselves or do their own homework or get on a bus, then that's less good. IMO.

Yes, I agree Sarcalogos.

Many SAHPs also generate a lot of social capital rather than playing tennis all day.

@sarco It is the people insisting that a woman MUST work in any circumstance or she is somehow responsible for sexism towards other women I object to. Or insisting that there is no worth in the sah role.

I would say that nobody has done that - but obviously Xenia kind of has. But I certainly haven't. I have said many times that if people can afford to not work then good on them. My only issue is in how it's presented. And there are posters in this very thread claiming their decision is neither economic nor because they fancy doing stuff other than the daily grind (which I could completely agree with especially today) but that it is necessary for their DC's wellbeing. And that is not a helpful message to be giving anyone - not other mothers, not men, and most certainly not the DCs themselves. Because apart from anything else - what if those mothers then find that things have changed and they have to go and work? How will they explain that to their kids then? How would the 'it'll be fine' conversation actually go? Tricky.