SAHM or private school for DC(s)

[Gatorade]

I have a 4 month old DD and I am starting to think about what I want to do in relation to going back to work and future school options (these decisions appear to linked as affordability starts to come into the equation).

We could comfortably afford for me to be a SAHM and send DD to a private school (well pre-school nursery first, but then through the private school system), this again would be ok for a second DC. The difficulty would be if we have more than 2 DCs, if we are lucky enough we would like 3 or 4.

If we were to have 3 DCs I would need to work at least 3 to 4 days a week to ensure that we could maintain our lifestyle (which is quite basic really, we are not extravagant people) and fund the school fees from earned income.

I am not too worried about my own future career, I feel I have achieved what I wanted to in terms of work before I had DD and if I don't have a professional career again in the future (if, for example I take 10+ years out of the workplace) this wouldn't concern me.

So my question, what would be more beneficially to my DD and future children, having a SAHM or going to private school?

Fair enough, amillionyears. I just disagree with the use of your word 'often' then.

If you were to survey the whole working population I would say the majority of people do not love their job - some like it or dislike it to a certain extent. Even in the most attractive, vocational professions when you reach a certain degree of maturity and responsibility you might find some of the politics quite soul destroying and a degree of tiredness then kicks in. I know plenty of consultants, GPs, IT professionals, lawyers, etc who gave up their job to do something totally different but this is indeed a luxury not everyone can afford. It's easy to say "just drop your job and get something you love" - if it was that easy everyone would be doing it, surely??

Yellowhouse, I am a lawyer and I love my job.

I work with plenty of lawyers who have not left their job and stick on to retirement. Of course there is politics (that is everywhere, even at the schoolgate), and a sameness and tiredness can and will set in over time. But there are lots of ways in which a career can progress, such as taking on various management roles or moving to a different organisation, that can keep the challenges up and be another mountain to climb. No job is perfect, neither is home life. There will always be the boring routine or frustrating aspects. It is the overall feeling that counts.

For me, the reason why I am still working is simply because I love interacting with very clever people at the top of their profession and being part of some amazing corporate transactions. I just don't get the same buzz from talking to other parents at the school gates or being in and out of people's houses for coffee or shopping - not that I don't find that enjoyable on an occasional basis, but day-to-day I need something more.

I thinkn even milk men and shop assistants can and often do like their job. They like the camraderie of office life or the people they chat to on a postal round. Loads of people get huge satisfaction from work just as people always did farming or spinning or whatever we have always done.

Like blues, I don't mind occasional school collection and I have gone to virtually every school even over about 24 years of having children at school although some of the concerts are too long and I am not hugely excited about the forthcoming speech day which is always too long.

My father's advice to us as teenagers was pick work you will enjoy for the rest of your life and that is very wise. Luckily high paid hard to get jobs for people who are very well educated tend to be more fun, more interesting as they change and also the people you work with are often brighter so that all adds to an interesting life.

I love my job
v much
and I'm good at it too
and certainly vast majority of colleagues love it too.the bonhomie and support is a big factor as it is demanding work

xenia, so you can imagine enjoying a shop floor job, yet you are still unable to understand that some people actually enjoy looking after their own children

Xenia.
You seem to have a real issue with housewives, were you bitten by one as a child?

I adore my job - am a midwife.
Do SAHM imagine that midwives,teachers,doctors,nurses etc who treat /teach/care for their DC "hate" their jobs ??
Would you like me to deliver your child if I hated my job .What utter nonsense .
I work 3 long days a week and have 4 days off to enjoy my home,garden etc
I am 50 what have my parents got to do with it ? I am an adult and therefore make my own decisions and have done for a very long time !

Housework

Working mothers and fathers bring up their chidlren and enjoy being with them. It's all about balance.

The only reason I go on about women who give up work is it is a massive problem in industry - so few women become leaders adn rise to the top because so many give up work or go part time. It is an issue of sexual politics and about reducing the opportunities for your daughters. The personal can be political.

OP your baby is still very young. The way you feel now is not necessarily how you will feel when she is a strapping 8 year old. I would avoid making decisions at this stage that will narrow down your future options. It may be difficult to imagine going back to work at the moment, but you may be surprised to find that you easily adapt (I did, twice, despite feeling that my heart would break in the run-up to my return to work). And the worst-case scenario is that you find it doesn't work, and then you resign and revert to your SAHM option. On the other hand, taking a long time out of your career path at this stage could affect your chances of future progression, should you decide that the SAHM route is not for you. I know many talented, highly-qualified mothers in the school playground who stopped working 8 years ago when their first child was born, are looking for work now that their final child is at school and are finding it extremely challenging to get as far as interview stage.

My advice to my DDs will always be - do what maximises your choices in the long-term, because a lack of choices is what makes you feel trapped in a situation. I try to apply that advice to myself as well.

You are absolutely right, Pendulum.

I thought my heart would break going back to pt work after one year's maternity leave with dd in pt nursery. Then once I was back at work, I remembered how much I missed it and having my own space and income. With ds, I took a full year maternity but cut it short at the end. He went straight into ft nursery with no problems.

Now I am back in ft work and loving it.

I am so glad I stuck it out on the work front. I would have been miserable at home (but I did not know that after my first maternity leave, still deep in baby fug) and the idea of being trapped unbearable.

The key is not to burn bridges at this early stage. There are many off ramps but very few on ramps.

"The only reason I go on about women who give up work is it is a massive problem in industry - so few women become leaders adn rise to the top because so many give up work or go part time. It is an issue of sexual politics and about reducing the opportunities for your daughters. The personal can be political."

So are you saying that mothers that want to stay home should forget about what they want and return to work for the sake of women who want to work?
Didn't realise I had let the whole sisterhood down shame on me.

I think the impact of part time work on your career varies enormously depending on your job.

I may return to full time work when DS3 starts school, and have seen several women do this and progress, one to Board level, over the last few years.

Partly that may reflect that our company is relatively progressive in a profession where it is still very male dominated at the top.

Partly it is down to having children late enough in life to have put in many years of hard work getting to the point where I have the status to be able to slack off for a while.

Not everyone has those factors working for them but the final piece of the puzzle for me is that DH took the opportunity to work closer to home after we had children. He can do that without hurting his prospects whereas i have to commute to central London.

I would not have been happy with him insisting in staying where he was as it would have meant both of us having unpredictable commutes and make childcare (given that we can't afford a nanny) more difficult. Although obviously this isn't possible for everyone I do think more parents should be exploring this kind of alternative to the woman giving up work.

He didn't need much convincing. He didn't marry me for my housekeeping skills.

Xenia, the weird thing is, I think it's possible that in real life we may have more in common than might be obvious by our postings on here ? beyond any Julie Andrew tendencies we may share, and the fact that you have "children" whereas I sometimes have "children", sometimes "kids" (depending on how lazy my typing is at any given moment) and, on occasion, "little blighters".

You actually make some really valid points, it's a real shame you lessen people's ability to take them ? or you ? seriously by being so deliberately inflammatory and insulting. Why do you lower yourself by being rude to people? You don't need to. You are more than able to express your ? often valid ? opinions eloquently and clearly without resorting to this.

For example, I think you're right that the personal is also political. I think you're right that it is important for women to keep a degree of independence and not be completely reliant on their husbands/partners both for their financial and personal wellbeing and security... I have two daughters, I'm keen that our generation of women do what we can to ensure that they have equal opportunities and the ability to decide what they want to do with their lives.

But the thing is, I don't believe that means that we have to conform to the traditional working models of the patriarchal 20th century. I don't believe professional success should be based on how many hours you spend in an office miles from your home and family. I think there is more to be gained by women ? especially mothers ? pushing to redefine the way we work as a society, and what is valued in the workplace. Technology makes this increasingly possible. It's about saying "Your way doesn't work for me, or my family. I'm educated, I'm experienced, I'm good at what I do. But I'm going to work on my terms, in my way; not in a way that is based on an outdated and fundamentally patriarchal model." and having the confidence to do just that.

And the thing is, it seems you, too, have structured your working life in such a way as to be available to your children, to make it possible to attend school functions, help them with their music... You'e not sat in a city office miles from them for 80 hours a week, as far as I can tell.

But look, I've a couple of theories about you ? maybe you'll let me know if I'm on the right track with either:

1 You are actually completely different IRL from the way you come across here, You're polite, mild-mannered and courteous to a fault. Everyone you work with thinks you're just charming and lovely, and wouldn't recognise the Xenia we see on here. But being so darned 'pleasant' all the time is difficult, you need a release. So you have a hobby ? which is to deliberately provoke and goad other women on an internet forum, making judgements and being rude and insulting at every opportunity.

or

2 You are exactly the same IRL as you area on here, in which case, hats off, because you must be truly unbelievable at what you do. Incredible. World class. Because otherwise no-one would work with, or do business with, someone so unutterably obnoxious.

I'm inclining to the former option, because I don't believe that you would post the Desiderata without it being a tongue-in-cheek gesture. You're clearly an intelligent woman, the irony of the words:

'As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexatious to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.'

coming from a poster with your (deserved) reputation on this forum cannot have been lost on you...

Go on. Tell me which it is...

db
xx

Blueshoes, I think your point about burning bridges is really important...

There are many off ramps but very few on ramps. Absolutely, blueshoes.

I do actually agree with Xenia wrt the personal and the political, but I'm probably not quite so hardline. Or rather in the circles I move in it is not at all uncommon for a man to be a SAHP so maybe I feel it less acutely.

It is very important to keep a hand in, whether you're male or female. You need to plan for the medium to long term too; not just pensions/mortgage and so on, but where you might be in 13 years or so when your children are at an absolutely critical stage. I'd have been taking on a 2nd job I think had I taken any longer out than I did and therefore not made the progress I have incomewise, simply to cover today's burgeoning cost of living; that would totally screw the work/life balance we've striven so hard to achieve.

never fails
some if you descend into character assignation and Frasier box set psychotherapy about Xenia every time she yanks your chain

you know what all the name calling and pantomime boo hiss that some of you project onto Xenia it's because she's yanked your chain and you don't like it. she's hit the spot.again.

Actually, I don't mind having my chain yanked. I just think it's a shame, because as you've implied Xenia actually has a lot of value to add to this debate, but much of it gets lost because of the chain-yanking...

And I think this is actually a really important issue and we need to hear from people at all points of the spectrum, full-time WOHM, part time WOHM, those who work in traditional set-ups, those who have redefined the way the work to suit themselves and their families,and those who have decided to be SAHM either permanently or temporarily.

Xenia seems to have combined a successful career with being available to her children to an extent... But all the other crap she spouts gets in the way of us accepting and understanding her POV and benefitting from her experience.

That's a shame and I wish she wouldn't. At least not on a sensible thread like this one. There's plenty of opportunity for it on AIBU...

db
xx

alana very true- I work in a female dominated profession -obviously and I appreciate the fact that I had the choice to work parttime when my DC were small and I had excellent maternity leave arrangements that benefitted both my DC. By having them fairly close together I was at home for 2 of DC1 4 years working very parttime the rest of the time.
Xenia will disagree with me but these maternity rights were hard fought for and I think we should be fighting for equality- with parental leave being shared equally (if a couple wish) .

first 4 years

I don't accept I am rude on line and I never personally insult anyone so I would imagine I am pretty much the same in real life. If women feel insulted because I state facts such as they often regret giving up work and it's usually those who would never earn much anyway who give up work that's just tough for them. In fact we could do with some women toughening up all round.

Someone asked: "So are you saying that mothers that want to stay home should forget about what they want and return to work for the sake of women who want to work?" Objectively yes, until we have more men than women at home. Surely we don't always put ourselves first? If I've told you your chidlren will do heaps better if you work hard and make a lot of money than if you stay at home doing bit of light dusting and you will be happier too then you're also putting family first if you work - it's win / win for the feminst working mothers all the way.

As for whether people want to change working hours man yof us work for ourselves. I work whatever hours I choose. A few people who work for me I am more than happy they work as they choose. One has moved abroad and works around a new baby - absolutely fine if a deadline is never missed and I get perfection from her (I do). Another chap with 4 children occasionally needs to work around them and that's fine with me too.

Those who hate normal working hours can (if they are up to much, most people aren't) so and found their own company and set the working hours there.

Ramps is a more productive topic for the thread. If you give up work in many jobs that's it or well paid good work anyway because your customers forget you in a short while and all your industry connections adn in due course your latest knowledge simply goes. If your job was cleaning bathrooms then that is less likely to be so. If you think you will give up a bad low paid job and use maternity leave to start the new Boden then good for you. Plenty of women have used maternity leaves as a way to leaev one low paid dead end and do something much better (but it's very hard).

Thank you Xenia...
I wasn't talking about direct insults so much as a lack of respect, but I think you get my point.

And I think it's great that you have set up your business to encourage and support different working practices.

FWIW, I left my job in February this year. I had been working in a top 10 design consultancy in central london at a senior creative position. I had been there for 10 years or thereabouts.

The spirit of the place was willing to embrace flexible working. Although TBH I was only the second woman in the business to have a child, the only creative ever to do so, and the only one who had more than one. I was lucky that I was valued and respected by the owners of the business who, at least in theory, were happy to have me back after maternity leave on whatever terms I dictated.

The flesh? Well the flesh was mostly male, and too disorganised and too set in their ways for it to work well for either party. Interestingly, most of the men at my level had children, but their wives (often in similar positions in related fields) had gone part time... I often questioned why our experiences and expectations of work post-children were so different... That said, many of them didn't see their children at all during the week. Under no circumstances was I prepared to do that, so maybe that's why.

They couldn't grasp the idea that if you were not sat at your desk in the studio, you might still be working ? at home, after the children were in bed, at weekends, whatever. Inevitably, and despite kicking and fighting at every stage, I found myself sidelined, in a way that my male counterparts weren't.

I fought for four years, but during that time the whole culture of the consultancy changed (not for the better), I was finding the work less creative, less stimulating. So I began to question if it was all worth the fight anymore.

I also realised that I could have more creative control over my work, more flexibility, earn more, and commute less if I set up on my own. I took a share in a studio five minutes from my house and ten minutes from my daughters' soon-to-be prep school, took a client with me (with my ex-employers blessing, the client said they only wanted to work with me anyway) and took the plunge.

I probably work more hours now than I did as a permanent employee, but I have far greater job satisfaction, all the flexibility I need, and my hour long bus/tube journey is replaced by a five minute walk. I'm loving what I do, and feel like I'm making a real difference for my clients, and able to be a calmer, happier, more available Mum to my girls.

I do work with others, in that I contract out stuff that's outside my skill-set, (often HTML coding or whatever). Most of the people I use are ex-colleagues who have made similar moves (for different reasons, usually) who work wherever they are, on their own terms too. They understand what's required and as yet have neer failed to deliver. I'm not yet at the point of employing anyone else, but can see that in 3-6 months I might be, and then I'll have to think long and hard about how that might best work for everyone...

I'm fortunate that it's been relatively easy for me to change the way I work, and that it isn't always so. But it took some guts to go it alone, I nearly didn't several times, but I'm SO glad I did.

db
xx

Good luck with it. We need more women working for themselves. Wealth comes from ownership as does ability to control hours and change things, if you want them changed, not from being someone's hired hand. Also it's huge fun to out earn others you used to work for and you can compete for and win work from them and probably ultimately earn more than those male creatives with part time working wives who will wished they had set up on their own too.