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Education

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Is this the truth about independent schools?

190 replies

madonmushrooms · 04/05/2012 15:49

I am thinking of sending my 7yr old DD to an independent school and am starting to look, as I am not happy with her current school.

I came across this today.

Is it right do you think?

www.parentdish.co.uk/teen/why-private-schools-are-better-than-state/

OP posts:
mrz · 14/05/2012 18:45

I wasn't aware Wolf's recommendations had become law so for the moment those holding QTLS can't legally teach in state schools whereas those with QTS can

jabed · 14/05/2012 18:45

What exactly do you want OriginalSteamingNIt?

I would agree in part with what you say:

I think what is annoying though is that whilst I can understand that a modicum of charisma and a passion for ones subject may be enough to make you an effective teacher in a selective school full of motivated pupils, there is often a discourse saying that state schools should 'learn something' from these teachers. I can't see what they could learn other than that life is easier when you pick and choose who you let in the door to be taught!

Well maybe that is what the state schools need to learn then?

jabed · 14/05/2012 18:46

The Wolf report had immediate effect back last year when it was released. However the instrument was put into place officially in April. FE teachers can teach in state schools as qualified teachers right now.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 14/05/2012 18:47

What, to kick out kids who are neither rich nor clever?

jabed · 14/05/2012 18:49

What, to kick out kids who are neither rich nor clever?

Or willing to learn and demonstrate some compliance (good behaviour). Unthinkable maybe?

mrz · 14/05/2012 18:52

It may be an easier life jabed but some of us think that every child deserves an good education

jabed · 14/05/2012 18:55

It may be an easier life jabed but some of us think that every child deserves an good education

Firstly I would say define good.

jabed · 14/05/2012 19:00

What, to kick out kids who are neither rich nor clever?

I am still waiting for a response as to what you want .

Your comment above follows logically from that you said originally. But what exactly do you want?

mrz · 14/05/2012 19:00

an education that allows them to fulfil their full potential

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 14/05/2012 19:02

You keep saying you're going and then not going. Do you not have some inferior carrots you can burn to a crisp and call idiots or something?

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 14/05/2012 19:08

and I don't 'want' anything except a bit more respect for those who use and work in state schools, maybe.

mrz · 14/05/2012 19:10

I don't even want respect for those who work in state schools TheOriginalSteamingNit but I would like a little respect and compassion for those children jabed seems to regard as inferior.

jabed · 14/05/2012 19:25

You keep saying you're going and then not going.

I did not say I was going at all. I said I was not going to respond to a particular line of questions

jabed · 14/05/2012 19:27

and I don't 'want' anything except a bit more respect for those who use and work in state schools, maybe

respect? What do you mean by that? How are you not being respected now? Define the term first though please, so I can understand.

jabed · 14/05/2012 19:28

It seems that mrx and yourself originalsteamingnit cannot agree on what you want anyway - so until we know that, how can anything be done to sort what is out?

teacherwith2kids · 14/05/2012 19:29

Jabed, I would ask what you want?

I understand that you want children who misbehave (To what degree? And for how long?) to be taught away from other children - in particular i understand that you want them removed from any classroom that your own child might be in, and from any class that you might teach.

However, I am interested in the practicalities of what you suggest. Should there be a 'behaviour screening' in every school shortly after the beginning of statutory schooling? Where are these 'other' children removed to? Is there any possibility of redemption - ie when a child arrives in a primary school (as many do into my school) with no pre-school education and from chaotic home lives, do they get a 'grace' period to conform to the (excellent) behavioural norms of my school? The Reception teacher usually achieves this by October half term each year...is she allowed that time? If an initially 'misbehaving' child - through pre-school experiences, exceptional intelligence or for other reason - starts to conform at a later date, are they 'allowed back' into your 'good behaviour' cohort? Or is there no hope - in which case, what incentive do these children have ever to behave well (bearing in mind that creating a permanent 'behaviour underclass' doesn't exactly deal with the problem - what is needed is routes via which children learn to modify their behaviour, acquire good qualifications that fit them for good jobs and responsible citizenship). And what about the verbal bullying, the absolutely vile non-physical ways in which children can be horrible to one another, which are DEFINITELY not confined to the state sector - do the perpetrators of that also get sent to your 'other place'? Or is that a 'nice' kind of bad behaviour and one which you are willing to tolerate?

Passion for, and knowledge of, a subject is not sufficient to make a good teacher - as a Cambridge graduate, I well know that the best and brightest in their fields do NOT necessarily make the best or most inspiring teachers, regardless of passion and subject knowledge. Successfully imparting knowledge, understanding and skills to children - especially but not exclusively at younger ages - IS more than just having good subject knowledge. And that 'added extra' is not crowd control - it is the ability to teach..

(QTS is a red herring. What matters is that teachers understand how to teach and not just what to teach - and it is easier to measure that using an 'input' model [has everyone received the relevant training] than an 'output' model [that is taken care of through the continuous performace monitoring and observation hat all teachers undergo])

jabed · 14/05/2012 19:29

an education that allows them to fulfil their full potential

And that would be? Can you describe how such an education looks please? Surely every child has a different potential?

mrz · 14/05/2012 19:32

Yes jabed which is why we have individualised learning/teaching.

I wasn't aware that TheOriginalSteamingNit had to come to a consensus as individuals surely we can have different ideas or is that not allowed in your world.

jabed · 14/05/2012 19:34

teacherwith2kids - are you asking me that question as a teacher or as a parent?

I am here as a parent.

At the moment I am just exploring what it is that is at the heart of this discourse. I am tired of the many threads shooting off and was hoping we may find some solutions and common ground in terms of what we need from schools.

I work in an independent school. I teach very mixed ability pupils. From a teachers point of view I have what I want.

But I dont think that is getting us anywhere. The reality seems to be that it is the state sector that is not achieving, not my sector ( and certainly not my school)

teacherwith2kids · 14/05/2012 19:34

What I want, btw, is an acknowledgement that the best education for all children, in which every child makes every scrap of progress they are capable of and none are 'given up on', should be the measure of a 'world class education system'.

A system which works very well for the top, and perhaps the bottom, as the old 2-tier grammar / secondary modern did, is not a world class education system, because the children in the middle, separated by a single mark at 11, go on to achieve such diffferent things, and therefore some of them are not achieving everything they could have done as that 1 mark gets magnified to such a dagree by the end of schooling. A system in which the rich can purchase a better education more easily than can a poor child of identical abilities, is not a world class education system. What everyone in education should be working towards is the best education for every child - the measure of which would be EVERY child making the maximum progress they are capable of.

teacherwith2kids · 14/05/2012 19:36

"And that would be? Can you describe how such an education looks please? Surely every child has a different potential?"

Absolutely. So every child, in every lesson, in every school, should be able to access the learning they need to make their next step to make progress - not to repeat something that they can do already, not to give up because it is too hard, but exactly the next step.

That's how I plan my lessons - isn't it how you plan yours?

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 14/05/2012 19:39

I didn't know who I had to be agreeing with, I'm afraid.

By 'respect' I mean not referring to children as weeds or dregs, not making ridiculous and ignorant statements about the behaviour, abilities or morals of children in state schools, and not saying that teachers in state schools have no self respect. Speaking respectfully, would, I suppose, cover it. Or at least without the sort of gleefully pompous sweeping rudeness which you seem to go in for.

As I said though: I thought you were going?

jabed · 14/05/2012 19:39

Seem to have lost a message.

Paraphrasing - I certainly do not want my DS taught in the same class with children who have emotional and behavioural difficulties and are disruptive. Forgive me , he is my DS and I want the best for him.

I dont mind teaching such children though - in a proper environment.

jabed · 14/05/2012 19:40

You wish me to go OriginalSteamingNit? Things getting too uncomfortable and you dont want the topic opened up ?

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 14/05/2012 19:41

How on earth are you going to keep him away from anyone with emotional difficulties?