How much do you sacrifice to send Dc to private school?

[VeryTiredMummyOf2]

I have 2 Dc, just want to know what people give up? And is it worth it?

People know believe me the competition is hot.

I work in an independent in finance,it is very common not to offer help at junior level and to concentrate help at senior level .

I would disagree with Heswall,I am often on other schools websites and it is rare now to find one that doesn't have details of the help available and the criteria ,in fact that is now best practice in the HMC.Prep schools are i hve to say a different kettle of fish .

If you are interested in a particular school I would make an appointment to visit on a normal day and speak to the Head and possibly also the Bursar .In my experience it is best to be completely upfront about the level od assistance which would be needed and they will be able to give you some indication of what they might be able to help with.Obviously ultimately it does depend on entrance exams levels etc but for music for example i have known children with a lower level given continuation scholarships as the school can see that they haven't had access to the level of teaching but can spot potential

obviously people for whom private school is on their radar know but i wonder whether the people for whom such an opportunity would make all the difference are aware of it.

thanks mrswoodentop. all good to know.

obviously people for whom private school is on their radar know but i wonder whether the people for whom such an opportunity would make all the difference are aware of it.

Oh I wouldn't worry apparently it's all a load of rubbish and run for the parents benefit anyway. You'll find a way if it's important to you.
Many children are better off in the state sector, those who need parenting by the teachers, those who's parents need educating alongside the children, those who have SEN that can't be resolved with an extra couple of hours extra tuition etc.

Heswall,

I was very careful to state that I was talking about my local private schools. If I lived in an area with less good state schools, and better private schools, then my list of 'pros and cons' for private schooling would be different, as I stated above.

Of course I am not saying that the teachers at my children's primary school are better than those at Eton - that would just be silly (definitely a case of apples and oranges, too, since it would compare a 5-11 school with a 13 -18 one). My point is that the mix of teachers, coupled with a much greater variety of teaching styles and effective differentiation, gives my children, at their school, a 'core educational experience' which is the match of my local private schools for their age .....which I have visited, and which I have friends who teach at. As a result, my children's attainment is at least on a par with peers who are at those schools (through out of school activities, we know a lot of children and parents at the schools in question).

You,ll find a way if it's important to you PMSL

noddy have you not noticed that tree at the bottom of your garden with the strange, unusual leaves?

"Many children are better off in the state sector, those who need parenting by the teachers, those who's parents need educating alongside the children, those who have SEN that can't be resolved with an extra couple of hours extra tuition etc."

Actually, those children would probably be the ones who would benefit most from the small class sizes and extra money available in the private system (though obviously the extra money might need to be allocated in a slightly different way to meet the needs of this somewhat different cohort). It's sad that they are the children least likely to access the private sector...

Heswall, I am not trying to make grand 'one sector vs another' comparisons. The point I am trying to make is that the cost / benefit balance is different depending on the precise schools available in your area, and also on the needs of your specific children. I could easily have been in your position - DS had a bad time in his first stae primary, so I removed him. Had we stayed in the same area, the best option for him may well have been private, as in that area there are some very good private primaries / preps [though they were a bit about DS's (then) selective mutism]. I might well have also been making strong comments about state education, based on my child's bad experience.

As it happened, we moved, and in the area we now live there are very good state primaries, and not such good private primaries, so after visiting all the options we chose the former. I am not claiming that my DC's school is better than Habs or Colet Court (both of which are hundreds of miles away) - I am making the much more minor claim that in comparing LOCAL schools, for my particular children and their needs, their current school is at least as good as the LOCAL private primaries, especially when their 'extra curricular' needs can be met so well in the community around the school.

The variation within each sector means that there is no 'clear water' between 'all state schools' and 'all private schools'. There is a huge gap between the worst state schools and the best private schools. There is also a gap between the worst private schools and the best state schools, as well as the big gaps between the best and worst in each sector. Comparisons need to be made on a 'school by school' level, not at a sector level.

Agree teacher.

I have no business to pass onto my daughter (and another squidge on the way)- what I do have are choices about what to spend my money on now. I grew up in rural Ireland where no one goes to independent primary schools- my parents sent all four of us to boarding school- it was very tough for them, but I just rememeber them uttering the words... all I can give you is a good education. This has served me well.
My husband was privately educated in Surrey and London- they had very few holidays either... therefore, it is not so much what you miss out on, but what your children gain...

teacher I also think the costs/benefits analysis will be massively influenced by how much cash you actually have.

If you can pay school fees comfortably, without the 'sacrifices' oft quoted here on MN, then you may find the smaller benefits more valuable to you iyswim. Wheras if you are making sacrifices and feel them as such then you are likely to analyse the whole issue differently. Having a bad local school would likely tip the balance perhaps.

Swallowed, scholarships for the bright but well off don't really exist any more. Bursaries for the bright but not so well off certainly do. They are based on income and most people who want one cannot get one as the other parents are basically paying for it but there are usually one or more in a year I suspect at most of the more academic private schools. They tend to be more likely to be available at secondary level.

There is website for ISIS - independent schools council - but not sure if that lists them. I think each school simply has bursaries (where it can afford them so usually the bigger schools)

Also my children's father worked in a school so we only paid 15% of fees for that child who was at that school when he was there (although 15% only is a very generous teacher benefit). we knew a couple with 3 children one taught at a private mixed primary and the other at one of the leading public schools which provided their accommodation and their 3 children were educated virtually free from age 4 - 18. Teaching isnm't always a bad income if you include very cheap school fees in the calculations though although plenty of teachers' chidlren cannot pass the exams to get into the school the parent teaches at and some schools offer only 10% discount for a teacher's child with a parent teaching at the school so it does vary.

Thanks xenia for the info re Governing bodies and private schools.
As I have said before, my ds attends a school in an area labelled as disadvantaged. Bottom line SAT results look shit but don't give the full story.[Attendance issues really skew results]. However, that does not mean children do not do well. [My ds among those predicted good KS1 SAT results as well as being enthused by school].
Unfortunately a large section of the local community run screaming from this school [chavvy parents being a major accusation- not sure what I am!].
I find it hard not to get upset when confronted by these opinions- people can be so rude about this happy, vibrant, improving swiftly school. Makes me angry and sad.
Not sure what point I am making really - as you were!

I hate the expression "chav" and actively avoid anyone who uses it. One particular set of parents at DS's school use it all the time, bizarrely, to describe themselves. I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve by this.

It is a Romani word meaning "child" or "youth" I believe.

Nothing to do with the thread, but there you go.

I find it tends not to be used in a nice way.
Thanks for the definition diablo [don't think those bandying term around mean child or youth though!].
[I'm a bit too frumpy I think to be labelled 'chav'!] Always said with disdain and superior air I find.
I guess re my previous post about people upsetting me with their bile about the local school I send my child to; I think my point was how blinkered people can be.
Read the ofsted I say/ make appointment to visit.. too chavvy/ skanky/ not for us is the response I get. I have lost aquaintances rather than friends over it.

We haven't had to make any real sacrifices to pay school fees. We still save, albeit less than we would if we weren't paying. Is it worth it? My DD is getting a fantastic education in the most wonderful prep school and every day I thank my lucky stars that we moved her there. Is it better than the education my DS gets at his state school? A bit, but not enough that I would move him or choose it as a first choice over state. I genuinely believe that the good state school my DS goes to offers 90% of the prep school. Some people might feel it worth paying for that 10% as a matter of principle, I only pay for it because I needed another school for my DD and could only get a short notice place in a private school. I can top up anything the state school misses in my own time, it is mostly sport, and actually I prefer the children to do things which are not entirely related to school.
Yesterday I gave my DS a sample age appropriate maths entrance exam paper to have a go at which I downloaded from the website of a very selective school in SW London as I wanted to see how far behind these super brilliant prep school prepared children he is. He answered all but 2 questions correctly. The 2 he didn't answer were on topics he hadn't been taught. It pretty much confirmed what I knew, that a good state school does a pretty good job.

I think everyone's definition of a 'good' state school is different.

I believe the state primary I send my ds to is a good school- [as do ofsted] Many around me 'fear' it for various reasons- historical views/not their kind of people/ chavtastic [not my terminology!], bottom line SATs results do not look good unless you break them down and see that an able child can do well.
I do not have the choice to send my children to private school but do believe my oldest child is getting a good education- both socially and academically.

Secondary seems a long way away. His catchment secondary sends some into major palpitations yet it too has a great Head teacher and is improving in leaps and bounds.

We will see nearer the time what we will do. [Only in year 2]. Live in a city with lots of private schools. Not tutoring our ds but will see if I get sucked in/ panic as time passes. I don't think so but who knows- time will tell! [It would have to be scholarship/ bursary and I guess one would have to tutor for that?].
So far happy with state....bloody good thing considering our finances!

IMO the vast majority that choose the best independent schools don't make significant sacrifices, they can afford it comfortably.

cortina that has been my observation at DC's prep school. Most families have enough to fund fees, huge homes, holidays, help etc. Many can afford to have at least one parent not working.

That said, secondary has been slightly different. Most parents at top boarding schools are pretty wealthy, but parents at academic day schools include those not as well heeled (these things being relative of course). There are quite a few immigrant families who are doing whatever necessary to get their DC's the best education as they see it.

from what i've been reading thus far most schools have scholarships still xenia which are nothing to do with income but ability and tend to amount to 50% - thereafter there are bursaries which are means tested which can be applied for if you win a scholarship.

As far as I'm aware most scholarships now carry only a small if any financial reward although music scholarships may include free music lessons. Certainly my DS's school is removing all financial reward from its scholarships. But apart from a relatively small number who offer generous bursaries to all regardless of whether or not you've won a scholarship you are much more likely to get a bursary particularly a substantial bursary if you win a scholarship.
Don't be under any illusion the competition for a scholarship whether it be sporty academic music etc into most indie schools is pretty fierce.

To digress somewhat I always thought that 'chav' was an acronym rather than a word in its own right.

Agree that scholarships are mostly no more than 10 - 20% these days although there are some worth more. Ds's is 50% plus one set of music fees. A lot of bursaries are tied in to scholarships - so you don't get access to a bursary unless you've got a scholarship.

The schools that offer large bursaries unattached to scholarships are often super selective and very wealthy.

The reason scholarships for the rich have virtually gone (or are a nominal sum for the glory not the money saving) is because opf the new charities law which is making it more important the poor are helped. SOmeone mentioned music scholarships above. My 3 sons have won them. The older one 10 years ago at one school wasoffered 50% off fees (but we picked the better school he won one at with a nominal sum off for a music scholarship as tha tmattered more thanmoney) and his siblings at that 50% one that school now offers a token amount off for music scholarships.

Someone mentioned level 7 which probably means grade 7. If they are very good but haven't done those grades it may not matter and also age determines what grades they would expect.Our older had a grade 8 at 12, 7 I think in one instrument and 7 in another or may be six but basically a lot of music exams and almost full marks in grade 5 theory at 11 or 12. The latest lot have a grade 7 (obviously grade 5 music theory too whcih is quite hard and you ust pass to do grade 6 and above exams) in one instrument and a grade 7/6 in another.

On bursaries in general if you are hard up and have a brilliant child who gets soe of the highest marks of those who pass the entrance exams then they might well get one of the rare secondary bursaries. Most parents who pay fees cannot afford to fund a lot of bursaries I think there are not huge numbers in any year but I've never earned so little we would qualify anyway so not had to look into it.