Help please - private pre-prep took me completely by surprise today

[Lifeislikeaboxofchocolates]

My DS (later half of the year birthday) has been at a private pre-prep nursery since September. I went in to discuss another issue and the nursery teacher told me that they think that he is not going to be ready to go into reception and that we should think about deferring for a year.

My concern about this is the knock on consequences for him as he goes through the education system as he is also extremely bright (eg they are learning 1 to 9 at the moment in nursery - my DS knew these numbers a long time ago - would it really be the best thing to learn them again this time next year? I completely appreciate that they need him to be at a certain level socially for reception and it is fair to say that he is behind on the social skills side more than some of the other boys - but I am not sure that keeping him back is the answer. A bit of a ramble - I am just shocked by this - can I have your thoughts?

Was that the reason they gave, that he was socially not ready as opposed to anything else? You need to have a much more in depth meeting with the school and the nursery teacher about this to ensure that it wasn't some kind of off the cuff/unintended comment and really get to the bottom of it. To defer a year is highly unusual, so you really need to know the school's thinking on this.

If the school has a history of deferring, then I'd be concerned if they do this too often. Sounds like a bit of a cop out. You and they have almost two full terms before reception starts.. maybe you need a joint plan and ideas to see if you can bring him with whatever it is they believe he is lacking.

I don't see how a 3 year old with slightly undeveloped social skills should be prevented from progressing to Reception. What if he hadn't been to the nursery? They would have taken him in Reception (presumably) and he/they/you would simply have got on with things as normal.

Reception is many kids' first taste of being with other children!! I know several who had basically never been away from mum and not even been to any form of nursery before starting school, so Reception teachers should be completely capable and able to handle a boy who is a bit behind on social skills. And if they can't or won't, then look for another school!!!!

Do you think they just want to ensure your dc stay in their system for longer, ie getting one more year of fees out of you?

I would pull him out of private education if their preprep was not able to get him ready for reception standard....

A lot of very bright children struggle with social skills and I don't think keeping them back is the answer. They need support, not time. I'd ask for a referal to the community paediatrician to be honest, I'm going down this route with ds (he's 12 though).

My private pre-prep said this about DS2. He was fine, albeit a bit "young" socially. I think they had lost sight if the normal range of it, tbh. Also the teacher who said it was young and I suspect an older teacher would have known there was no problem. I don't think you should be too quick to hold him back, he is so very young that it is too soon to call. Is he going to state or prep? If it's state I'd ignore them for sure.

Hate to be the one to raise this possibility, but could this be the start of the "counsel you out" process?

What concerns have they raised about his social skills? What discussions have you had about how to work (together in partnership) to deal with these issues?

How much do you like the school, and do you want him to stay? I have to say that having this sort of conversation about a child in the nursery sounds very unusually ruthless.

Hi everyone - thanks for all your helpful responses.

in answer to your questions:

It is that he is socially very young - as the nursery teacher put it - the others are now "getting the rules of the nursery classroom" and DS doesn't yet (eg he had a book at circle time!). There wasn't a lot of discussion about how to improve - just to "keep talking" - any ideas how we can work on social skills???

She mentioned that he plays alongside rather than with (don't see that as a problem.

The issue we originally went in to see them about - which was toilet training - he has struggled with this - I have had a lot of "bags of shame"

Not sure if they habitually keep children back, but didn't feel we were being counselled out (hope not any way!)

My ds is in a private pre prep nursery too, and his birthday is later in the year, and he's also struggling socially, and I had a chat with his teacher this morning about it - I've been thinking about it all day.

He'd never been in any sort of childcare before September and I assumed this is what the nursery was for - to help him develop social skills and get him ready for Reception! He also plays alongside children and I'm not sure how to help him as he is so confident and plays so well with his siblings at home, so I know he has the skills. He takes a long time to settle into new things and come out of his shell so I was expecting things to start improving around now based on how he's been in other situations. The teacher suggested play dates with kids in his class.

In Scotland (state system) some children are deferred for many reasons some of them due to social skills.
It seems that children who are deferred do better in exams in high school. I guess he would be a year older when going to university, choosing options for exams, career path etc

That's not a bad thing. It's not unusual for parents to independently decide to defer their children. I have never met anyone who regrets their decision to defer but some who regret not doing it

If you look on the Bliss (premature baby charity) site they have several useful factsheets on the pros and cons of delaying entry into formal education. While it feels like the right thing to do right now, it can have potential to disrupt things on entry to secondary school, for example.

I think most Reception class staff should be equipped for children arriving in their classrooms at very different stages of development. I can't speak for the independent sector as ours are in state, but I've investigated this for my DS2. He has SN and is a July birthday and I'm quite concerned about his entry into school next September. We were given several options by the LA and I think I'm going to go with having him on a half day at first; he'll bond with his peer group and in the afternoons I intend to consolidate what they've covered in the morning and try teaching him at home what they plan to do that afternoon. The reception staff plan together and have the weekly teaching plan up outside the classroom for parents to see. We'll see how it goes!

We are in Scotland and we didn't defer our DS even though we thought that he probably wasn't quite ready for school. Nursery said he was ( later discovered that they actually didn't want to fund him for another year as they had a bumper year of nursery kids coming up which they had to find places for- nursery head who left told me this!) even though they too had some reservations. He struggled with P1 and by P2 he was clearly falling behind resulting in a series of botched meetings with SN teacher/GP referral all of whom concluded he had no problems except he was in wrong school year. In new school he repeated the year- no issues as there were several other boys who had been deferred so he was not he eldest. Within months he had risen to the top end of the class and really gained his confidence and was progressing normally. So my advice would be to listen to what they say about holding him back. I don't think he will be bored as a good prep will be able to stretch him. DS had done a lot of the maths and this was one thing he was coping well with so he was just doing the maths of the class above/extension exercises on the basic stuff.

God, wish I, in the state system, had even had the suggestion of deferring DS2!

Playing alongside rather than with other DCs certainly can merely indicate immaturity, but in my DS1- and again, like another poster here, I so don't want to frighten, it can also set low level alarm bells ringing for autism. DS1 was assessed by a paediatrician for a year then 'signed off', but he still, at 12, shows the odd 'tendency'.

Of course, ASD is not the end of teh world, obviously, but if this is in the teacher's mind, it would be helpful to know!

Bliss factsheet

"bags of shame"
If this is the term the school use I would remove my child immediately. I work with children and it's these sort of comments that traumatize children and make them hung up about going to the loo when they are older. Surely no educational organisations uses these sort of terms in the 21st century.

Is there a problem having a book at circle time? Perhaps it was more intersting than what was actually going on in circle time.
He's three years old for heaven sake. If I was you I'd hope I was being "counselled out" then you can leave without giving a terms notice.

Happygardening - no thank goodness not a term the pre-prep us - it is more a reference to how I feel when they give me yet another plastic bag.

It is the knock on aspects of deferral I am concerned about - eg) can't imagine applying to go to a school at 14 rather than 13?

Don't think he is autistic - he is an only child - so is quite used to playing on his own.

Our primary explained that at the moment, their insurance only covers children up to the age of 11 and they would be unwilling to have a child of 12 permanently educated on site. Even if their policy were more flexible there's no guarantee that any school DS2 might move to in future would be. There was a case I think I read about on here where a Year 5 child ended up having to go straight to Year 7 and skip Year 6 entirely because the secondary school wasn't prepared to have an older child in a younger year group.

Having said that, I don't want to scaremonger; there were several people on the same thread who were very pleased with their choice to delay a year, despite it swimming against the tide of the English system. I also suspect that the private sector will have different policies should you intend to keep him independently educated all the way through. I really recommend the Bliss fact sheets. They helped us make our decision.

So he's, what, 3, and just started at nursery?

Sounds completely normal to me

Does this pre-prep go onto a certain school (sorry don't know much about how it works) - have you chosen his primary school - how did you choose the nursery etc etc

I'd have happily deferred my (young year R) ds if I'd been able to do, even though he's started school fluently reading and able to count to where ever you want (or 129 if you ask him how far he can count to... apparently this is his definition of infinity) but socially he'd be better in the year below.

They've told you with plenty of time to spare for things to change, but that might be better to bring it up now rather than have him all excited about going up and bring it up at the last minute and you saying "why didn't they tell me earlier?"

I would wonder whether they are gently leading up to tell you other things he's not coping with. How do you know he's exceedingly bright? Is it your opinion, or have they said so too? Knowing numbers 1-9 at age 3 isn't amazing, I expect there'll be several others that know them, and probably beyond too.

I would ask for a meeting with his key worker or main teacher to discuss this. Ask when a decision has to be made. Ask why exactly they want to defer. If it's only toileting then roll your eyes at them . Get your worries in about him repeating the stuff, but don't say he's really clever, that'll get their backs up. It may be that they take a small group of more advanced ones to do more, or it may be that in class he's not showing he knows it at all.

Then go on to see how they're trying to help him gain the skills he hasn't got. Somewhat worried about him not taking part in circle time at all. That's ringing slight alarm bells for me. Are they not bothering encouraging him to join (bad on their part) or is he being really awkward about it (so you need to work on it together)? At the preschool my dc went to I never knew a child not do circle time at all, some were wrigglier etc. than others, some wouldn't manage a whole time, but they did get them all (from age 2.6yrs) sitting for some of it.

This all sounds so odd... I could understand if the pre-prep thought your son has developmental delay or other learning needs... but really - how many 3 year olds do you know who play well with other children? My son, same age, still plays alongside others. He is in NURSERY and it is only January - seems very odd to be making such a big decision with nearly 2 thirds left of the year.

I would ask the school:

• How can you tell, at this early stage, that he will not be ready for reception?
• Why does it matter if a child seems 'young' in reception, if they are achieving the academic targets?
• Keeping him down may be help him socially but in solving this, how can I be sure we are not bringing on a new set of problems eg. he may end up placed well socially but not academically.

Seems like a drastic decision to make in a not very extreme situation.

It's only January (just!) I'm very surprised they would be suggesting this at this point, if at all. I'd work with his teacher to put a plan together to support him in the areas where they think he needs it. My experience of a private pre prep has been that in Reception they do have them sitting and working straight away (this is a very academic school though) while our friends in Reception in state schools get much more flexible time to choose and play - the 'work' kicks in much more in year one for them. (Just my experience though) So they may have this in mind - but I still see no reason why you all can't work on it together over the next seven months!

Thanks everyone for your thoughts

DeWe - he is taking part in circle time - it is just he wanted to take a book with him today (this was the situation recounted to me). I know he is a bit wriggly - but will sit now.

Sardinequeen - this is a nursery attached to a pre-prep (private primary) - so would go into reception in the same school

This is a big decision they are asking you to make and one that could have consequences down the line eg if he went into state at some point he would need to go in his correct year potentially missing a year.

Could you ask to go into the reception class? Reception should also be following EYFS like nursery.

I wouldn't do it.

First of all, I am surprised they are ALREADY suggesting this, as at 3 years old 8 months are a very long time - they have 8 months to work on your child's basic skills, and also like others' said, reception must by law follow the EYFS which is hugely play based and unstructured.

I would be wary of doing this as like you say, you might choose at any point to put your child in a different school and they might take issue with the age not being aligned to school year - most independents around us would NOT consider this either, so you will find this to be a problem not just with state schools.

The counselling out thing is generally done in a very subtle and kind way, it's not all guns blazing or rude in most cases. I would take heed now and look to remove and look for other choices. It does not bode well for you child imho.

I think you should turn this round and ask whether they will put an IEP in place to help and support him with the issues they have identified. Deferring is very much a alst resort and even then he doesn't need to wait a whole year permanently. You'd also need to consent to this and with your misgivings about the academic side I'd resist too.

Does he have any issues at home such as re. toileting or is he finding the restrictive nature of the classroom stressful ? Agree it all sounds perfectly within the norms of development and, having had 2 dc going through a prep school and seen others go by the wayside later on, it may well be worth looking elsewhere for Reception if that is their attitude towards him already.

Nothing you have said sounds anything other than normal for a 3 year old.

You need to go back to them, have a proper meeting (preferably outside school hours do no distractions from children), and ask for lots of examples of why they think he is immature for his age.

Then they also need to give you concrete strategies that they and you can use to work in this. If they can't do that then they aren't doing their job.