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Help please - private pre-prep took me completely by surprise today

110 replies

Lifeislikeaboxofchocolates · 25/01/2012 18:31

My DS (later half of the year birthday) has been at a private pre-prep nursery since September. I went in to discuss another issue and the nursery teacher told me that they think that he is not going to be ready to go into reception and that we should think about deferring for a year.

My concern about this is the knock on consequences for him as he goes through the education system as he is also extremely bright (eg they are learning 1 to 9 at the moment in nursery - my DS knew these numbers a long time ago - would it really be the best thing to learn them again this time next year? I completely appreciate that they need him to be at a certain level socially for reception and it is fair to say that he is behind on the social skills side more than some of the other boys - but I am not sure that keeping him back is the answer. A bit of a ramble - I am just shocked by this - can I have your thoughts?

OP posts:
lukewarm · 26/01/2012 08:41

on this

Amaretti · 26/01/2012 09:32

He sounds completely normal to me. If you are in England and there is any chance at all that he will be educated in the state sector for any part of his education then moving his school year will cause problems as the LA will not follow suit.

My DS is now 11, btw, has been pretty much fine through primary and is looking completely ready for secondary, as much as any of them can be. He is confident, independent and has passed all his entrance exams. They all develop at different rates and your DS is only 3, FGS!

obladi · 26/01/2012 11:36

hmm this would sound alarm bells for me. It is a MASSIVE decision to defer entry and could have long term consequences for him socially.
I would definitely consider moving him - sounds like they cannot cope with anything other than a cookie cutter child!

CarrotsAreNotTheOnlyVegetables · 26/01/2012 11:40

Suggesting deferral at this stage seems a bit extreme for a DC who seems to me to be behaving well within the normal range for a 3 yo.

Personally, I have never heard of a DC having deferred entry to reception in any of the schools my DC attended. I would expect it to only be suggested in the case of severe developmental delay which would make it impossible for your DC to be accomodated in a normal reception class. Your DC is definitely not in this category. Any competent teacher should be able to cope with him with no problem.

I would echo the concerns of others re school entry down the line. My DS has a classmate who was kept behind a year as he got very behind due to hearing issues. He is now looking at senior schools 13+ and has a very limited choice as most of the schools will not allow late entry into y9.

I think this school sounds a bit rubbish TBH and they appear to only want to deal with the most mature, bright kids as this makes their life easier. Look for another school for reception.

NormanTebbit · 26/01/2012 12:17

Personally I would be looking st a less regimented environment - a nursery with a more nurturing,relaxed approach where he can gain confidence, make friends at his own pace a not worry to much about 'nursery rules'

He's three!

reallytired · 26/01/2012 12:33

If your son was at our local state school he would have started nursery a couple of weeks ago. I think its a mistake to consider defering him as he has normal intelligence. It will hurt his feelings to be kept down a year.

On the social side there is loads you can do to help. Playing games with him that involve taking turns. Getting down on the floor and playing with him. You can help him by doing imaginary play and being his play mate. Invite little friends round. It is very hard for children with weak social skills to learn through play as no one will play with them at nursery.

Things I have done with my childrern.

*Drape a blanket over the clothes horse and pretend we are camping in the living room.

  • Pretend to be at the doctors.
  • Set her toys round the table and pretended that we were running a restuarant for the toys.
  • Pretended we are at the seaside.
  • played Guess Who
  • If you don't mind religion then the local church sunday school can help with school readiness.

You could ask your hv about your child's development. Maybe a hearing test or speech assessemnt to rule out any serious problems. It might be that your son needs grommets rather than being defered a year.

VivaLeBeaver · 26/01/2012 12:34

I'd be going back and asking what they intend to do to try and attempt to help him progress socially, obviously with you doing what you can at home to help. You're paying a lot of money, they should be doing what they can to sort out any issues. If he was struggling at maths, etc you'd expect them to sort it out.

SardineQueen · 26/01/2012 12:35

Have you got your heart set on this particular primary? Did you look at all the local schools and you feel it's best or was it more of a this has a good rep and is local so will be fine (my parents did that BTW there's nothing wrong with that!).

I'm just thinking that if I were you I would be pretty surprised and naffed off frankly by the nursery. Having accidents and wanting to take a book to circle time when you are 3, and playing side by side - these things are not things that nursery should be batting an eyelid at IMO.

I would definitely go in and have a proper talk with them, and be prepared to start looking around for alternatives.

bradbourne · 26/01/2012 12:52

I think you definitely need to go and talk to your son's teacher again and ask her to clarify exactly what she meant. Have they got a plan to get him ready to start reception in September? Are there any strategies you can use at home to help?

I don't like to ask, but has he definitely got a place there in reception for September? On the face of things, it sound to me as if you might be being counselled out. Sorry, and I hope I'm wrong in this instance. But that's why you need to speak to the teacher (and perhaps the head, too) ASAP. I know many of the prep schools in my area like to informally assess small children before they offer a place even if only to see if they can sit still, follow instructions, etc. Whilst it might seem harsh if a child is turned down for a place, it could also be the best if it means the child finds a place at a different school which is better suited to their temperament, personality and so on.

EnjoyResponsibly · 26/01/2012 13:02

My DS (now 4.6) is in Reception at an independent school. Prior to this he went to both state and independent pre-school (the latter being attached to his now school).

At BOTH pre-schools DS had almost entirely negative feedback on his social skills. His academic skills were never mentioned. The manager at his state pre-school told me that the independent school we had selected wouldn't accept him due to his behaviour.

DS found it hard to sit still, wasn't keen on joining practitioner led activities, preferred to play alone, was disruptive if not kept engaged. He often seemed baffled by the rules of the classroom and frequently got told off. So much so that he seemed to take scoldings as an occupational hazard.

So in September he went into Reception with me a nervous wreck. His teachers regard him very highly, claiming he is a joy to have in the room. They have highlighted some of his traits as being potential autism spectrum. With their support we met with a child psychologist who thinks he's just a bit socially immature ( being a boy, summer birthday, only child).

The teachers have taken the time to understand his ways, he is making great progress, I hardly ever get the been naughty message after school.

It has been difficult and at times saddening to watch little DS struggle to adjust, but he has and that makes me Smile

If he had been kept back a year I feel it would have been very detrimental to his social progress, the very element that the move would have sought to address.

Xenia · 26/01/2012 13:07

If he is in the right year group then insist he stays in it.

Is he kicking other children and causing trouble? If so having him in a class with children a year younger and smaller than he is is hardly going to help? Have they said what the difficulties are? Would they let you observe for half a day?

NormanTebbit · 26/01/2012 13:15

What is 'counselled out?'

EdithWeston · 26/01/2012 13:22

"Counselled out" is the (allegedly) gentler way of asking you to withdraw your child because they no longer want him in the school. It's not the same as an expulsion, or a failure in exams required to progress eg from pre-prep to prep, both of which have fixed dates. This has less of a definite end date, and normally waiving of the notice period, so you can leave as soon as the next school place is secured without financial penalty.

Theas18 · 26/01/2012 13:23

I'm assuming this is a non selective independent nursery feeding in to a "non selective" pre prep and then into the prep school?

Sounds, as previous poster says that they don't want anything that falls outside a rigid definition and they have 1 answer- keep him back- not support and encourage his development!

I think asking for an IEP would be very interesting, however I think on the whole they don't want/don't think he'll fit in to the school as they see it. I think if I had those vibes I'd be moving him to a school that wanted him with his slight immaturities etc and was able and willing to deal with them. I feel it might be a real issue if you insist on keeping him with his peers.

I don't think private school have to do EYFS stuff??

bradbourne · 26/01/2012 13:26

My friend's daughter was "counselled out" of her independent school by them gently suggesting it might be better if she didn't sit the exam for the senior school as they "weren't sure that she would pass".

It's basically a way of trying to tell a parent in the kindest way that the school might not be the most suitable one for their child.

BeattieBow · 26/01/2012 13:26

I agree with Normantebbit, I wouldn't be happy if my ds's nursery had an issue with him taking a book into circle time! (mine starts reception in Sept too and is an April birthday). I would really question whether that is the environment you want - chances are it continues through the school with questions about reading ability/progress/social skills being raised throughout.

I did have older children go through a pre-prep nursery and school and this kind of thing really irritated me. I knew of other children who weren't allowed to go into reception too.

BeattieBow · 26/01/2012 13:27

oh lots of children were "counselled out" of my dcs prep/pre-prep school in every year from nursery onwards. Such a stressful time for both parents and children.

NormanTebbit · 26/01/2012 13:36

So they 'counsel out' whoever might need a bit of extra help or attention?

If that is what's happening I would not keep my child at that school, it is no good for anyone. He is not failing nor is he immature, he is an individual and if you are forking out hard earned cash you should expect him to be treated as such in a positive environment.

Are his difficulties with toilet training due to anxiety?

wannaBe · 26/01/2012 13:38

I am going to be blunt .

ime (not personal but from others who have sent children to pre-prep and beyond, there is massive expectation on the part of the school, aboth academically and socially. I know of one school where children are expected to be reading fluently by the december of reception and if not then parents are expected to pay for private tutoring Hmm these are 4/5 year olds we are talking about. Hmm

The cynical part of me is wondering whether they feel your ds does not fit with their Hmm image of children achieving to a set target and whether deferring is considered to rectify that.

I had previously considered private school, but having heard others' experiences I wouldn't go near the private sector at such a young age..

EdithWeston · 26/01/2012 13:42

EYFS has now rolled out to all schools, and so reception classes are inspected by OFSTED. I do not think it would now be possible to have such an expectation of reception reading nowadays. (And I'd never heard of it, despite the weird London stress years).

Lifeislikeaboxofchocolates · 26/01/2012 13:47

I don't think they are trying to counsel him out. But they haven't thought through the knock on consequences.

A few examples of behaviour:

Taking a book to circle time
Refusing to let another boy play with him in the "shop"
Screwing up his work
Crayoning on the carpet
Squeezing another boys cheeks
Being slow to put on plimsols
Being "all over the place" in the afternoon when tired
Playing by on his own - alongside others rather than with them
The teacher mentioned that he "gets the blame" for things which are not his fault. I nearly cried at this point.

I should mention my DS is an only child with no cousins - I am sure this impacts

OP posts:
EdithWeston · 26/01/2012 13:53

Well, that's quite a list.

But you haven't said if there was a similar list of interventions/support as there are two terms to get this cracked. What will they be doing to manage and improve his behaviour in the classroom, and what would they like you to do to support it (as consistency is likely to help)?

if they're not actively addressing those aspects, then they have gone off half-cocked, and sound a bit defeatist to me.

Do you want your son to be in this school long-term?

NormanTebbit · 26/01/2012 14:02

Could they let him have a nap in the afternoon? My DD's nursery had a play corner with a bed and I would sometimes come in to find her tucked up asleep in it.

SardineQueen · 26/01/2012 14:07

To my mind, these are normal things for a 3yo to be doing, he has only just started at nursery... I would be so surprised if our nursery raised things like this as "issues" as they just aren't, I don't think.

I would be looking for somewhere else, sorry.

SardineQueen · 26/01/2012 14:08

The "gets the blame" thing is odd - what does that mean? Who is blaming him and why? What do the staff do about this blaming?