Anti-bullying week: how do you tackle homophobic language with your children?

[RowanMumsnet]

Stonewall's campaign against homophobic bullying, Education for All (which is our Campaign of the Week this week) aims to prevent and tackle homophobic bullying and language in the UK's schools.

YouGov polling for Stonewall shows that 95 per cent of secondary school teachers and three-quarters of primary school teachers report hearing the phrases 'you're so gay' or 'that's so gay' in their schools. And eight out of ten secondary school teachers and two in five primary school teachers report hearing other insulting homophobic remarks such as 'poof', 'dyke', 'queer' and 'faggot'.

We (and Stonewall) would love to hear your views on this. Do you challenge your child if they use these phrases? If so, how? Has your child reported hearing this language at school, or being the target of homophobic bullying? Do you think your school deals with these things well? What should schools do to tackle it?

Thanks,
MNHQ

Why would you find it hard explaining gay parents to a nine year old?

We explain how babies are made, we explain that sex is part of a loving relationship...and that some sex results in a baby. We also talk about mechanics of egg and sperm and other ways of getting the two together.

What's difficult about that?

Maybe someone should tell R Gervais that he has apologised an meant it, because he was still saying that audiences were thick because they misunderstood him in his interview in the Guardian Weekend mag last w/e.

Eh?

Hurry hurry, Manathome, you don't want to get contaminated with gay germs.

Rofl.
I think Manathome's comments demonstrate a big problem regarding education children to not be homophobic - they then go home and listen to ignorant parents.

mentally contaminated? Oh do fuck off dear. You have? Excellent...

What iggi999 said.

Last I noticed it was an education thread, but I guess some people really want to resist any chance for learning :(

My children's school had a bit of a problem with homophobic language in the upper years (we are in Canada and the children move to high school at around about 13, so a bit older than in the UK). Our parent teacher association equivalent organises the sex ed stuff, and found a really good educator for it and the upper years all had one session focusing on homophobia as well as the more traditional birds and bees session. It sounded a really good session and had them all thinking. I don't know if the incidence of 'that's so gay' has dropped but I sure hope so.

We could also educate religious types about homosexuality couldn't we? No point being anti bullying and then them being taught in church/mosque that being homosexual is a sin.

Don't worry about manathome. He's in some weird 1950s time warp. He also believes that women belong at home and all domestic work is women's work. Oddly enough he's currently a SAHD, and has been asking for advice on how to clean his bog because apparently, we women are born knowing this stuff. I shudder to think what kind of weird sheltered WASP upbringing he's had. Then when anyone tries to point out he's incredibly offensive he gets all huffy, accuses us of being horrid and storms off.

OMG, i feel so sad for manathome's poor daughter having such a homophobe for a dad.

Empress - black was used to describe stuff long before people decided to ascribe that colour to themselves. Black sheep (of a person), black as night, black mood etc. etc. etc. came hundreds of years before black was used to refer to people. Using the word in that kind of context does not reveal any prejudice.

Well welcome back to MN, manathome. Have you had a nice break?

But what a surprise to find you here derailing another thread to express your views.

And displaying your supposed ignorance of homosexuality.

Sexist - check
Homophobic - check

What about going for racist for the full set?

-------------------

Back to the OP. Any use of language like that would not be tolerated. However, it seems to me that children pick up on these terms without having any idea what they mean. All they understand is the overall context - i.e. I'm throwing an insult at someone, I'll call them 'gay' or 'retard' or whatever else they've heard.

I remember my father having to stop me using the word 'crap' when I was a very small child. I knew it meant something was bad, but I had no idea what it actually meant.

Gentle correction and explanation, and telling them that it's not a word that you want to hear them use again in that kind of context.

As a secondary teacher I ALWAYS challenge this. I will also quite happily say that I have gay friends and explain that there is not just one way to be in life and that all lifestyles are equal. One of my Y9 girls was once mortified to find out that I had stayed at my gay female friends house overnight and my partner didn't mind. I also teach science and have a nice video about artificial insemination that has a heterosexual couple who are having trouble getting pregnant and a lesbian couple looking for a sperm donor. It nicely handles the issues around sperm donation as well. All schools and all teachers need to challenge this, no matter what the age of the children. PSHCEE needs to be better as well, I have no trouble discussing any issues around sex and sexuality with young people but some of my colleagues do, I don't think they are the right people to be stood in front of a PSHCEE class.

The area that I find quite difficult challenging is the calling of people gay, or suggesting people are gay. This is a different issue to using the word gay to mean stupid, not very good etc.

Younger teenagers can be quite silly about sex and relationships and will make jokes about boy A fancying girl B ,or what boy A and girl A might be up to when they have gone off to the cinema, or that if boy A comments positively on girl A or helps her, they must be in love.

So when they make similar jokes about boy A fancying boy C, I find it hard to know when it is okay not to challenge it because it is just a silly joke, and when it crosses over a line from joking and speculating about relationships to joking about homosexuality as if there is something wrong with homosexuality.

"Granny" is another one which is ageist. The jargon of teenagers is often words they use with each other but not necessarily with others. You even get amongst the very best of friends of mixed races Paki and it would never be used by any of them to a third party.

The question to us on the thread is how do we deal with it. I wouldn't ignore it. I can't remember how the conversation came about yesterday but I said something like - I would have no problems with any of you being gay and then one said XYZ in his class was probably gay and I and my older boy asked why he thought so and it would have been clothes, quite camp etc etc so we both said you can be eccentric, interested in clothes etc without being gay.

Language does matter. The fact "bastard" or "you're a girl" or "Granny" or "gay" are used as terms of abuse illustrates the fact those categories of persons must be regarded as lesser and worse. However you cannot and should not control in any major way words teenagers use. They have their own codes and views and as long as they are being given a clear message at home that we respect all people (even, heaven forfend, housewives.. ugh...) they will come right in the end and learn when you use types of language with one group of people and what you might use with others.

Xenia, the problem I have with that is that a teenager can be very confident that their friend is not a granny; we can't ever be sure that a teenager, even one very close to us, isn't gay. So it is impossible in that situation to make reasonable judgements about different audiences when we can't be certain about the sexuality of any audience and would have to make decisions based on our presumptions.

Yes, it can be more hurtful to use gay as abusive than granny. They should try more inventive insulting words really. Most of them seem to grow out of it however. Now I think about it the conversation yesterday did then go on to - it is likely someone in your year group will be gay and he seemed to think he had a pretty good idea who that would be.

Anyway my basic point was it is always worth pointing these things out. I even do it with racist taxi drivers - I never let the comment pass. I'd always at the least say - not everyone agrees with that view.

I agree that there is an issue that teens go through a phase of making such remarks to each other. There are a lot of posts on here from people saying their child won't make such remarks because they have been taught otherwise at home. My friend works in equality and diversity, and has a child who she raises with her female partner. Her son has still made remarks that some brand of shoe is 'so gay' and my friend has had to have a conversation about why that is unacceptable. So I don't think people should be beating themselves up if their children aren't perfect.

Children learn to be homophobic in wider society and they then have to learn how not to be, which can take time and maturity. I don't think it is something that parents can deal with in isolation, and I am happy with my son's school's approach to teaching about sex and relationships and also how they deal with bullying. The school is successful with this because they put a great deal of importance on dealing with gender stereotyping and have a zero tolerance approach to any kind of bullying or teasing based on pupils doing things that don't fit a gender stereotype. Homophobic bullying is much easier to address within that context. The impression I get from MN threads is that is not the context in many schools.

By relating it to gay people that we know in real life. IMO once you do this, children will stop.

Point taken re 'black.'
As for manathome... I had some very similar questions from my Catholic step-grandfather after coming out but while he may not have approved of the answers he was polite enough to recognise that that was his problem, not mine. He certainly didn't suggest that my young cousins would be 'contaminated' by contact with me, DW and DD.

Don't worry about manathome, Empress, it is a deliberate position that he takes up. He pretends to be so old (at 50) that these things have passed him by - how je doesn't understand how men and women can be equal, or how they can share the work of house and child care and now, how it can be that gay people are just as normal as straight people.

I am 52 and my dad is 80. I remember him telling me when I was a child what it meant to be gay, and that it was quite normal/acceptable. So trying to play the age card has nothing whatsoever to do with anything.

Manathome is just a deliberate troll and derailer.

(And before anyone accuses me of troll hunting, I have said exactly the same to MNHQ). I wish, however, that his post hadn't been deleted - then everyone else who comes to read this thread could see just how truly appalling his post was.

It's quite instructive, in an odd kind of way, that he would also post this way on a thread that Stonewall are observing.

Thanks BIWI - I think you're completely right.

My son recently said "Mummy, X said that 'gay' is a swear word." and was concerned (we have lots of gay friends so he is used to hearing it in positive context - he's 6). My articulate little daughter (who is 7) took it out of my hands and said "It's just a word that means 'happy' or that you'd rather marry someone of same gender. And weddings are happy things so that all makes sense." My son was happy with that. And is currently a big fan of Russell Grant on Strictly Come Dancing - loves him because 'he is fat and a bit strange in that gold suit'. Although he does think he's called Brussel Sprout.

We have a very insular, rural primary school and not everyone is open to difference but I am a Londoner - not that this makes you open-minded necessarily but does introduce you to a wider variety of lifestyles I guess - (as were the children until last year) and I am a school governor at the school so will bring it up to check school policy. I know they work hard to tackle race issues - have correspondence/mutual visits with racially mixed school for example - but sexuality - not sure to be honest.