Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

MNHQ

Anti-bullying week: how do you tackle homophobic language with your children?

149 replies

RowanMumsnet · 07/11/2011 11:21

Stonewall's campaign against homophobic bullying, Education for All (which is our Campaign of the Week this week) aims to prevent and tackle homophobic bullying and language in the UK's schools.

YouGov polling for Stonewall shows that 95 per cent of secondary school teachers and three-quarters of primary school teachers report hearing the phrases 'you're so gay' or 'that's so gay' in their schools. And eight out of ten secondary school teachers and two in five primary school teachers report hearing other insulting homophobic remarks such as 'poof', 'dyke', 'queer' and 'faggot'.

We (and Stonewall) would love to hear your views on this. Do you challenge your child if they use these phrases? If so, how? Has your child reported hearing this language at school, or being the target of homophobic bullying? Do you think your school deals with these things well? What should schools do to tackle it?

Thanks,
MNHQ

OP posts:
HelveticaTheBold · 08/11/2011 00:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KatharineClifton · 08/11/2011 05:54

My children know anyone can be gay. They know they could be gay, or anyone they know could be gay.

Shame Stonewall haven't included transphobic bullying.

seeker · 08/11/2011 06:15

" Gay when used as an insult has nothing to do with homo sexuality anymore than wicked any thing to do with evil. How on earth can 8 year olds be homophobic?"

So where does th usage come fm then? Did they just pick the rod "gay" wt random to mean useless and pqthertic?

sevenoften · 08/11/2011 08:09

I regularly challenge my pupils who say 'that's so gay' as a general pejorative phrase. They always protest that it doesn't mean they are homophobic - it just means 'that's stupid'. Depending on how much time I have, I either say: 'Whatever you think you mean, it's not what you're saying. So stop it.' Or if I have a bit more time, I'll say something like, 'Well, what if everybody said "that's so [yourname]" every time they thought something was stupid? What would they be saying about what they thought of you?'

They very, very rarely say it again in front of me, because they know what will happen. But I am under no illusions that it won't stop them elsewhere. They will, however, at least have a heightened sense that there is something wrong with it, and that it may not be publicly acceptable.

AnnieLobeseder · 08/11/2011 08:17

Wow. There are seriously people who don't see the issue with "like a girl"? And some folk say there's no need for feminism any more!

Children should be taught that any language where another person's intrinsic identity, be it gender, race, sexual orientation or hair colour, is used as an insult is very, very wrong.

tabulahrasa · 08/11/2011 09:03

I wouldn't automatically have an issue with, screamed like a girl...I don't watch cbeebies, but if it was used descrptively because of the sound it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

But I think that's very different from other uses of, like a girl.

MaryBS · 08/11/2011 09:05

My daughter has been called a lesbian at primary school, this was a few years ago, she was only 8, she didn't know what it meant, but reported it and the teachers had words.

Then in year 5, she asked what "being gay" meant, I asked her what she thought it meant and she thought it meant unhappy, a boy in her class had been called it and he got upset. I explained...

The school has TRIED to deal with it, but I think much of it comes from older siblings.

Other bullying language has included "retard" (despite her being very intelligent). I take particular offence at this because her brother has SN.

AfricanExport · 08/11/2011 10:11

I think that most children who use this have no idea what it means and what it implies, they use it because they hear it being used.

If you don't want them to use it then you need to teach them what it means, that it takes all types to make this world, how boring would it be if we were all the same and that everyone has an absolute right to love whoever they please. Explain how using the word has become an insult because some people are simply not very nice.. Saying don't use that word in a derogatory manner is not going to make anyone less homophobic.. teaching why not to use it is what is important.

notcitrus · 08/11/2011 11:50

My kids aren't really old enough to use such words yet - ds still uses 'he' and 'she' at random aged 3 and probably thinks it's fine for two boys to be daddies together as long as they're penguins (we have 'When Tango Makes Three').

However I do work with teenagers and people in their 20s who use 'gay' as an insult and I always call them on it - they nearly always argue that 'gay doesn't mean that any more' so I point out that 'if you go to your parents and say 'Mum, Dad, I'm gay', they aren't going to think you mean a bit crap, are they? Gay people are still using the word, it still means them, so trying to say it means crap too makes it sound like you think gay people are crap'
It often works, though sometimes I've ended up pointing out that the law says you have to act as if you think gay people are equal, especially in the workplace (not a perfect explanation of the law I know, but by that point I just want them to shut up!)

I haven't yet encountered kids who claim they didn't know gay means homosexual - not sure what I'd say if I did, given the difficulty I had calling one bunch of teenagers on using the word 'mong' - turned out they genuinely knew what Down's syndrome was but had never heard the word mong/mongol related to it. As far as they were concerned, mong was short for mongrel which is either an inoffensive term or an insult meaning mixed-race - I left them arguing which but suggested they not use it around older people.

As for Stonewall... their remit doesn't cover transsexuality so they don't even pretend to know anything about it. Unlike bisexuality where they do get funding to cover it and really don't have a clue!

bigTillyMint · 08/11/2011 12:02

DD has never and I think would never use "gay" as an insult or in a pejorative manner.

I have heard DS and his mates use it as an insult - Both DH and I have challenged them and discussed with them why they shouldn't be using it like that.
I haven't heard him use it as an insult or in a pejorative manner recently, but I have heard him say things like "Harry from TOWIE is so gay" or "X looks so gay when he walks" or "X dresses gay" I don't think he means it to be offensive, but is categorising like he might say "X dresses like an EMO" or whatever.

Neither the DC nor any kids I know use the terms 'poof', 'dyke', 'queer' and 'faggot' - they are not in common parlance.

strawberrymivvi · 08/11/2011 16:15

When at primary my son was subject to being called a "gay retard" on a daily basis. I went to complain to the head and they told me it was no big deal and my son should deal with it, they had a friend that everyone knew as Big Gay Dave. Dave could handle it so my son should take it on the chin. I did ask if he was big, yes he was, was he called Dave, yes he was, was he gay... yes he was. Then asked is my son was gay? Cue spluttering. Is my son a retard? More spluttering and me being shown the door with assurances it would be dealt with. It never really was to be honest and it was only when he left the school that my son told me that the head used to laugh at him playing football whilst telling him he was worse that a girl. It was wrong on so many levels.

Ds now at secondary will pull his friends up on the use of the words they use, gay, queer, lesbo and faggot. I'd say that it's an even split between the children that know exactly what they're saying and those that have an idea of what it means generally i.e. it's a bit gay means it's a bit rubbish.

I think more teachers should be like the ones on this thread and pull children up on it. It has become law (I think) that schools should report to the local authority all incidents of homophobic bulling as well as racial and SN bullying but it usually just gets ignored.

bintofbohemia · 08/11/2011 16:32

My friend who is a lesbian refers to herself and her friends as dykes - I don't use that term myself but I hadn't realised it was offensive?

seeker · 08/11/2011 17:04

Dd and I refer tonourselves as gingas on occasion- doesn't mean it's ok for anyone else to!

jade80 · 08/11/2011 17:20

So, what do you do with an adult who thinks homosexuality is 'just wrong'? What are the best ways of challenging it?

seeker · 08/11/2011 18:56

Avoid them?

helpmabob · 08/11/2011 19:14

I have always been very upfront and open about homosexuality. My children know that some men love men, some women love women and some women love men. This makes it easy to explain about homophobia and language and they understand why it is wrong.

Insomnia11 · 08/11/2011 19:33

I wouldn't use it myself but I know gay people who use gay to mean crap as well as homosexual.

I told my eldest when she was four that women could marry other women and men could marry other men. We went to a dear friend's civil partnership when she was that age. She came come from school confused as a girl in her class told her girls can't marry other girls. I told DD1 they definitely could!

MNHQ
RowanMumsnet · 08/11/2011 20:11

Hi all

Thanks for the comments and debate so far - very informative, and I know Stonewall are finding it interesting reading too.

Shock at the first part of strawberrymivvi's post. The Education for All site has some info about the public duty on schools to tackle homophobic bullying under the Equality Act.

MNHQ x

OP posts:
KatharineClifton · 08/11/2011 20:29

'As for Stonewall... their remit doesn't cover transsexuality so they don't even pretend to know anything about it. Unlike bisexuality where they do get funding to cover it and really don't have a clue!'

Stonewall Scotland are actually LGBT and are great.

castlesintheair · 08/11/2011 20:34

I think gay role models can make a difference. My DCs are very close to their 'gay' uncles and wouldn't dream of using the word in a derogatory way. I even heard my DS (9) saying to his friend who said something along the lines of you're so gay: "Not in our house, xxx". I'm sure they would be like like this anyway Wink but having an openly gay teacher (is this allowed at school?) whom they admire for example or a few more openly gay football players, actors or whatever they are into, must surely make a difference to impressionable kids?

edam · 08/11/2011 22:32

Openly gay football players? Last one I heard about killed himself, poor man. Are there any 'out' players at the moment?

edam · 08/11/2011 22:35

And for Stonewall - I assume they've taken into account that responses to this thread will be from people who are against homophobic bullying? Unlikely to get anyone who is prejudiced clicking on a thread about homophobic bullying, especially on MN. (Although sadly that doesn't work when it comes to feminism, you do get Mens Rights Activists turning up to spout bile and pretend that men are the primary victims of domestic violence from evil 'wimmin' and that rape victims are all liars.)

KatharineClifton · 08/11/2011 22:38

Edam - did you miss JustRedbin's post? And no, there are no out LGB footballers. One gay rugby player.

iggi999 · 08/11/2011 22:54

There was a Swedish footballer who came out recently (a famous one if you know football!) I believe he was born in Liverpool.

SacreLao · 09/11/2011 01:14

Comments such as 'your so gay', 'that's gay' etc. ARE homophobic.
Even if when said it isn't meant like that.

The fact that the word gay is used instead of rubbish / not very good / stupid is the reason why it is homophobic and all this language should be challenged.

I doubt the parents saying 'they dont mean it in an offensive way' would have the same view if their child was using a racist term in the same way.

Also 8 year old CAN be homophobic, believe me I have seen it, from 6 and 7 year olds as well :(

I am a lesbian, and a parent. My children are 7 and 9 years old.
They have been teased for having 2 mums, told they must be gay, called weird and told that they will go to hell!

This sort of thing HAS to stop and it's only going to when parents start to teach their children ACCEPTANCE and challenge these views.