Anti-bullying week: how do you tackle homophobic language with your children?

[RowanMumsnet]

Stonewall's campaign against homophobic bullying, Education for All (which is our Campaign of the Week this week) aims to prevent and tackle homophobic bullying and language in the UK's schools.

YouGov polling for Stonewall shows that 95 per cent of secondary school teachers and three-quarters of primary school teachers report hearing the phrases 'you're so gay' or 'that's so gay' in their schools. And eight out of ten secondary school teachers and two in five primary school teachers report hearing other insulting homophobic remarks such as 'poof', 'dyke', 'queer' and 'faggot'.

We (and Stonewall) would love to hear your views on this. Do you challenge your child if they use these phrases? If so, how? Has your child reported hearing this language at school, or being the target of homophobic bullying? Do you think your school deals with these things well? What should schools do to tackle it?

Thanks,
MNHQ

If possible, have close gay relatives, and good friends who are gay. Then you have a good point of reference, and it will never be an issue, as the kids see how outrageous it is to insult those people whom they love.

The end point of the language used is too late. My DS does not say these things because he understands that sexuality is just another part of the diversity of human beings, an ordinary thing, and that rudeness and name calling about any aspect of a person is a horrible way to treat someone, whatever it is about.

On the other hand children in my extended family are well aquainted with racism, have experienced it, know what is and isn't racism and are prepared to challenge it, but also make idiotic teenage homophobic comments. Because it isn't 'joined up'.

Homosexuality needs to be dealt with as an ordinary thing, a lifestyle lived by perfectly ordinary people - and this needs to be encompassed within all talk at school and home.

But sadly too many peolpe conflate any reference to homosexuality with being urged to try it, or instruction in how to do it, and that is it something that needs 'dealing with' as a topic, that only parents should talk about, and certainly not when children are young...and numerous MN threads over the years have demonstrated this. Though to be fair the vast majority of MN-ers are anti any form of discrimination or prejudice.

I have heard my 8 year old son saying this and asked him what he thought it meant. His response was "a bit rubbish" - he had no association at all with homophobia.

We had a discussion that it meant different things. I have explained to him previously that whilst most couples are hetrosexual (as this is clearly what he sees all around him), sometimes the person someone loves most in the world is the same sex as them. He's fine with that. We then discussed that a word used to describe people in relationships with someone who was the same sex as them was "gay" so using the word to mean "a bit rubbish" could be quite upsetting as people might think he was suggesting they "were a bit rubbish". Without me asking, he said he would never use the word in that way again.

My children have never used it, but that's because I've always talked about all relationships having value. However they're not really old enough for friends to be saying 'that's a bit gay'....so may have to deal with it later on.

I think, point out to them from a very early age that people they know are gay, and this is just part of normal life. We know a fair number of gay people, including two of the kids' uncles, but I would think almost everyone knows someone who is gay.

The first thing is for the sort of parents who frequent mumsnet- generally educated, literate and involved to stop saying stuff like "oh, when the kids say that something's so gay, meaning it's a bit rubbish, they are not being at all homophobic- the word has changed its meaning"

This is complete bollocks- it hasn't, and they need to be challenged every single time.

I've got a 10yr ds in yr6 and a 12 yr old ds in yr 7...
I hear "gay" bandied about as an insult all the time, not by my boys, they know better than to utter that kind of insult in my hearing range or they'll get a right telling off.
Both of my boys play sport, and i hear gay regularly on the football pitch and the rugby pitch.. I also see it on their friends face book pages.
I constantly remind my kids that gay is a ridiculous insult as there is nothing wrong with being gay.. I also tell them, they should reprimand friends who use it. Ds1 is too timid to stand out at the moment, but ds2 has no qualms telling people they are being homophobic/racist / generally insulting. As far as I know, our junior school has done nothing about this, but to be fair, it's quite a strict school, so I don't imagine the children attempt this language whilst they are there..or certainly not in the hearing of any teacher.

ds is only 8 so homophobic language hasn't been an issue - have never heard any from his friends or from ds. Whenever it's come up naturally in conversation I've talked about how men can love men and women can love women and how people of the same gender can get married. We were at a friend's 50th birthday on Saturday - friend is gay and his partner was there, plus his eldest dd and dd's mothers. His partner talked about how Gary had brought children into his life, by doing co-parenting with the (gay) mothers of his dds. Speeches included talking about friend's past fighting for gay rights in New Zealand when homosexuality (well, acts) were illegal. ds didn't comment on any of it.

If, when he's a teenager, I hear him using 'gay' as an insult, I'd tell him off and explain why it's wrong. We've discussed racism quite a lot (stuff that has come up naturally) in terms of 'isn't it stupid to think that the colour of a person's skin makes any difference or makes them less important', I imagine having the same sort of conversations about sexuality if that ever comes up, but age-appropriate so more depth and history for a teenager.

Oh, and we are all Doctor Who fans in this house, and I think the programme does a great job of gently showing why racism and homophobia are stupid, without making a lecture of it. Not sure it's quite so good on sexism, tbh...

That's an interesting point seeker; I was actually just coming on to say that maybe the word has - if not exactly changed meaning - at least acquired a new one. Words do acquire new meanings all the time, after all. I suspect a etymologist would say 'gay' now has a slang definition distinct from its other meanings. (Interesting-ish blog post here in which some guy suggests the phrase will soon morph into 'That's so McDonald's' )

Not to say I wouldn't still challenge my kids if they used it (I would, although neither of them have yet), but maybe we stand better chance of getting children (especially older ones) to listen to us if we acknowledge that they might see the meaning differently, and that they are often not using it in a deliberately/knowingly homophobic way.

"Not to say I wouldn't still challenge my kids if they used it (I would, although neither of them have yet), but maybe we stand better chance of getting children (especially older ones) to listen to us if we acknowledge that they might see the meaning differently, and that they are often not using it in a deliberately/knowingly homophobic way."

Agreed. So once it's been explained to them, THEN come down on them like a ton of bricks if they use again!

Mine have never used those terms and I'm fairly sure they'd know better than to...

I do challenge other people's children though, mostly on using gay to describe something stupid or bad (I find on the whole that actual insults aren't that common, just a lack of understanding about why using gay as an insult is offensive)

It usually goes something like

Child. That bike's so gay
me. Really, a bike with a sexual preference? what sex is it? How can you tell? Here (whoever else is there) do you know X's bike has sex?

Which usually results in me being given a pained look and I tell them to say what they actually mean then.

We are talking teenagers though rather than young children, lol, and I'm well known for being fairly annoying about stuff to them anyway

With younger children or teenagers I don't know it'd be along the lines of, that's not a very nice word to use like that and why

DD is well acquainted with gay men, she was bridesmaid to two. Anyhow, yesterday we had a suprise chat. She hadn't realised that the word gay had originally meant happy or bright, she thought it just meant people of the same sex who loved one another.
I would be horrified if she, or any of her classmates used the word in a derogitory way. She is 10.6 and last year primary.
She has a friend in her class who calls himself Gay Vernon. Not sure what the point of this alter ego is, but he is certainly a popular child.

I'm a teacher and I challenge this every time I hear it. (And I don't have the 'selective hearing' some teachers adopt either).
In the area I work in quite a few schools are working hard on this theme.

My children (13, 11 and 8) haven't/wouldn't use those terms in front of me because they know what my reaction would be. I've spoken to the DSs about it (after hearing another child using it) and I hope they wouldn't use it at school, I don't think they would.

Frankly I don't care if it has a new new meaning. It's hurtful and oppressive language and I won't listen to it.

when my kids were teens and younger they used 'gay' as name calling term. as in "oh shut up you GAY!"

Each time they said it in earshot of me...i said this

"gay is not a derogatory term" it was my mantra

they wouldn't dream or wouldn't have dreamt of saying faggot or queer though - its just not in the vocab rather than any moral reason

If I hear any of my children use a term that I feel is derogatory to anyone Gay, disabled, overweight ... I challenge them immediately.

I tell them why I feel it is an offensive term. I ask them how they would feel if it was directed at them, I explain how hurtful it is to be called names.

We discuss their feelings on the subject e.g. that they dont think its wrong and that 'everyone says it'. I dont freak out but I am firm and clear.

All of this depends on which child I am talking to and how old they are. I will also challenge children I am with. I try my best to do it in a way that wont make them go 'whoooooa loony old person'.

It doesnt help to alienate someone or to humiliate them. If I cannot change someone's mindset I can at least make it clear that I will not tolerate discriminatory language around me.

(I should point out its not just kids I will challenge)

I don't think my children would use the term, actually. Partly because they are not stupid, and know that their mother is nauseatingly right-on and would explode at them (and I'm not known for my retiring quiet nature); but also because they wouldn't think of it as an insult. What with having lesbian and gay family and family friends.

My ds is 5 so a bit young to use it, but is fully aware of how peoples words hurt people and very happy with the concept of gay relationships and families.

With my neices and nephews, I have zero tolerance on use of homophobic language, and indeed zero tolerance on FIL and others

Of course this is an important issue, and I would challenge my children if they ever used the word 'gay' in an insulting manner.

But I would like to know if similar campaigns are in place to fight the use of 'like a girl' and 'girly' as insults. Surely it's just as important?

Annie, did you see the Cbeebies thread? Someone complained about a presenter saying 'screamed like a girl' and, eventually got a puzzled brush off from the Beeb, who clearly had no idea what she was on about and why it was a problem...

The problem is that most children are evil little f*ckers who like to have a go at each other. They also reinvent language. Gay when used as an insult has nothing to do with homo sexuality anymore than wicked any thing to do with evil. How on earth can 8 year olds be homophobic?

They really can, JustRedbin. They are more than capable of picking up on adult attitudes to homosexuality.

My ds is 7. He knows what 'gay' means & he knows not to use it as an insult, any more than he uses racist language. I'd be utterly ashamed if he did either, NOT because he's an 'evil little fucker' but because he's an intelligent human being who's been taught that hateful language isn't acceptable.

I'm a teacher & I pull kids up on 'that's so gay' every time. Language & attitude do shift - when I was a kid the things kids call gay now, were probably 'spastic'. It's still hateful, it's not OK, & it's everyone's responsibility to say so.