Anti-bullying week: how do you tackle homophobic language with your children?

[RowanMumsnet]

Stonewall's campaign against homophobic bullying, Education for All (which is our Campaign of the Week this week) aims to prevent and tackle homophobic bullying and language in the UK's schools.

YouGov polling for Stonewall shows that 95 per cent of secondary school teachers and three-quarters of primary school teachers report hearing the phrases 'you're so gay' or 'that's so gay' in their schools. And eight out of ten secondary school teachers and two in five primary school teachers report hearing other insulting homophobic remarks such as 'poof', 'dyke', 'queer' and 'faggot'.

We (and Stonewall) would love to hear your views on this. Do you challenge your child if they use these phrases? If so, how? Has your child reported hearing this language at school, or being the target of homophobic bullying? Do you think your school deals with these things well? What should schools do to tackle it?

Thanks,
MNHQ

My children are 6 and 2, and the eldest has already had some teasing at school for having two mums. Very low level, innocuous stuff at the moment, but it's important that the school set the right tone now, rather than AFTER the children have discovered the charms of homophobic bullying.

That means zero tolerance for using 'gay' as an insult. Even if the children are using it innocently. Their innocent use of it changes HOW you challenge it, but not the fact that you should.

Incidentally, having gay parents/friends/relatives doesn't innoculate your dc from this stuff (though it undoubtedly helps). My eldest dd has gay parents who pass as 'normal' (feminine-looking mothers and a non-camp dad) and I have had to pick her up on criticising camp gay men as 'weird and girly'.

I'm a survivor of far less pleasant language that "That's so gay!" When I was a kid it was queer, homo, pouf, nancy boy, and much else besides. It wasn't just from school colleagues, but from my parents, too. But there was a difference. No-one used the words in the same manner for everyday things. No-one said "That's so queer!" in the same way they use the word 'gay'. So I find I am in two minds over the current rather pathetic use of the word 'gay'.

As a gay man I wonder, sometimes, whether objecting to words is not, at times, counter productive. You might remember the Falklands War when British troops named the islanders "Bennies" after the then popular somewhat imbecilic Crossroads character, because he wore a woolly hat and so, because of the weather, did they. Forbidden to do so by their CO, he found that they started to refer to the islanders as 'Stills'. On asking why, he received the glorious reply "Whatever you want us to call them, they are still Bennies!"

The issue is, surely, not the vocabulary, but the context. Call me gay in the right context and I enjoy your usage of the word. Describe Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, or The Birdcage by saying "That's so gay!" and you're right, they are. Use it as an insult and that is very different. Banning a word gives it more power to hurt.

Education over the correct and incorrect, the pleasant and the hurtful usage of words is important. Dealing with real homophobic language is as important as dealing with real racist language. And yet each is wholly context dependent.

Children are naturally fair until someone teaches them not to be. Reinforce their fairness. They understand fairness better than we adults do.

I heard my kids use 'gay' as an insult when they were younger because it was the language of the playground - we have gay and lesbian friends and no matter how much we talked about it they insisted that the word just meant 'stupid' and had nothing to do with sexuality... I still regularly had to come out with my mantra of "please don't use 'gay' as an insult". I haven't heard them use if for years now (all teens and older) and one of them told me a few years ago that she found herself saying exactly the same "mantra" to a friend when they used 'gay' in that way.

brainwashing, that's the way to do it

But seriously I'm with hester much use of it is "innocent" in that it's not meant to be homophobic, but it should still be challenged every time they do it. Mine began to see that it actually did upset me when they used the word as an insult so began to build up a sensitivity to it - and you have to continually talk about it, about how damaging assumption of 'heteronormality' can be ......

my son has Aspergers and ADHD and is very tactile with others. When he is hyper he will hug and kiss people. This includes boys in his class and he has no impulse control. He told me the other day that he is Gay. (he is only 9 and socially very behind so this wasn't his "Coming out"). I asked him why he thought that and he said "because that's what the other boys have told me." They tell him this because he kisses everyone, and because he says he loves his best friend they are now telling him he is Gay. He takes everything very literally and doesn't understand what this means. He may well be Gay but he is not aware of his sexuality yet. He finds it hard just getting through the day. I have had a word with the teachers who said, "oh they just don't know what they are saying. They use that word a lot". So I said that it was about time it was addressed then. Especially as my son will get very confused if he is told what he is.

My son has had stupid boys calling him "gay" because he is on the top table for English. I am not sure how he should handle it.

I told him that both the hextrosexual and gay communites have produced outstanding authors in their time.

I agree that the children may not know what they are saying, but it doesn't make it right. I feel that if the school fails to correct a child's mistake when they are young and mallible in their attitudes then they are being insitutionally homophobic.

I feel that insitutional homophobia is a more serious problem than a small child using the word "gay". Once teachers and parents have the right attitudes then homophobic bullying in schools will be less of an issue.

gay used to mean happy and cheery
now it has 2 totally different meanings from that...AND from each other
LIKE LOTS OF OTHER WORDS eg wicked,bad,kick it,kicking and other expressions of 'casual violence'
Poof et al are VILE VILE expressions , only insulting and I find it hard to write in fact

I find it very depressing that parents defend their child's use of "gay" to mean pathetic by saying "oh it means something different now." I call it the "Ricky Gervaise Defence"

Ask yourself. Even if it does, why was that specific word chosen to mean pathetic? Why not macho, or table, or elephant? Obviously because gay people are pathetic, therefore anything pathetic is gay.

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but so far I like Goosey's first post.

My DC are too young for this to be an issue so it's rather useful to have to think it through ahead of time!

This has recently been a problem for my dd in her school. Some of her friends were mucking around laughing at people for being lesbians. My dd refused to join in and told the girls that this was mean. They continued to do it so my dd was ostracised for a while because she wouldn't do it.

I felt for her but I was really proud of her too, for sticking to what she believed was right and not caving into peer group pressure.

We have several close family friends who are gay, my cousin is gay and a two of the leaders in one of her after school activities are a same sex couple. We have just treated it as a normal part of life: some people have blonde hair, some people have brown skin, some people love the opposite sex, some love the same sex etc.

I think not discussing it with children for fear of spoiling their innocence is a mistake. I don't think it has anything to do with innocence and would rather my child's first encounter with topics such as this was with me rather than mean giggling and ignorance in the playground.

Seeker, the Ricky Gervais thing has been on my mind since this thread started.

'Ricky Gervais Defence' - very good!

Its the spectators that would destroy the openly gay footballer. Or at least a section of them. Sad.

have heard gay used in that way by those with friends/family who 'r gay : it def has 2 tot seperate meanings now(tho not when it started of course...ie at least14 yrs ago!.......LIKEWISE THE WORD GEEK)some people should stop being so precious ALSO...what about cruel sneering of early auditionees on X FACTOR etc people who'r a bit 'odd' seem to be considered fair game on nat TV ...if that's not bullying..............

My 13yo Ds gets the 'you're so gay' all the time and I think he's got to the point where he thinks 'if you can't beat them, join them' and he uses it in retaliation.

I am always telling him it's not acceptable, but it's in one ear and out the other.

I'm confused by your posts, demisemiquaver. Are you saying it's ok to bully people with the word 'gay' but not with the word 'poof'?

i'm saying that the 'p' word has only one use and that is to insult homosexuals, personally have always HATED it : it's cruel and unkind like all bullying and thus not "ok"......any words used in an insulting way are insults
SOLO :that is unkind for folk to speak to your son like that if they do it all the time if they'r wanting to hurt his feelings
i still say that gay is often used (for at least a decade [!]) in a critical way that has nothing to do with homosexuality,and many youngsters dont get uptight about the whole thing anyway as they've been brought up more broadmindedly
LOTS OF WORDS HAVE DIFF MEANINGS : GET OVER IT

So, demisemiquaver- have you thought about why the word "gay" was chosen to take on the new meaning of "pathetic"?"

Say, for exampl, kids started to use the word "black" to mean useless, would that be all right because that word would then have two meanings?

Demisemi - is a gay young person meant to "get over it" when they grow up hearing everything that's boring, stupid, weak, or generally disliked called the same word as their sexual identity?
You are wrong about the words being unconnected, and if we followed your advice it would be a victory for homophobia.

And even if children are using 'gay' without linking it in their own minds to homosexuality (as i accept they are), what happens when children like mine then go into school and say their parents are gay?

Even if the children start off using it innocently, the link is too strong for it not to have homophobic impact.

And please don't tell me to 'get over it' or that I'm being precious: my kids and I live this stuff, it matters.

DS was somewhat bemused by the boy at his new secondary who sneered at him for talking to girls because 'That's like SO gay!'

My daughter asked me only this last weekend if the world would end if everyone turned gay, it took me a few seconds to work out what she was saying but funny how their little minds work, she is 9yrs old and wanted to know who would have the babies. I still haven't answered her as I don't know the answer, what should I tell her? At least she is aware of gay people I guess.

Tell her gay people can and do have babies

Manathome- are you not aware that gay people can have babies?

Sorry no, I am not gay aware if that makes sense, I just find it embarrassing to talk about and have never met a real one to talk to about it, not that I would know the difference between real and pretend, but I need a child type answer to give her, would help me as well I guess.

You could tell her two mummies and two daddies could get together to make a baby and then the baby would have four people to love it (or something like that).
What has put the idea in her head that 'everyone' might 'turn' gay, I wonder?

SEEKER I didn't start this use of the word myself ..I think attitudes were very diff back then and that's how it started
HESTER do you have people in your life with mental illness? because in casual [adult and child]conversation and also lots of comedians routinesthere'sTONS of insults like that[crazy/loony/nuts/etc/etc...........] that are EXTREMELY upsetting when they affect you/loved ones/friends but you just have to remember it's thoughtless, and not take it personally