contacting mumsnet about article

[singingmum]

Does anyone know how to contact mumsnet as I would like to know why they wrote such an ill informed article on home education.I know I have commented on this on another thread but the article is still there.I am severly dissapointed that this was written in such a way as to make He seem like a foolish thing to do.The article was badly researched and had no information that was helpful.Mumsnet has been a godsend on the advice front except for this and I am a little shocked that they have done this.
Any help or opinions appreciated.

hmb, it's strangely reassuring to read that even a teacher dreads teaching subjects outside their area. I've always dreaded the idea of me teaching. Don't know why, just the way I am. I went to a college reunion and discovered I was the only one of my year of 30 who didn't make a living out of teaching in some way. OK not a huge lot of things you can do with a history degree, but still, I was taken aback.

Fairymum, how were the people you refer to HE if you went to school with them???

IMO HE is being done for family reasons, I think it;s best for all of us, but I am NOT putting my needs above theirs as you seem to be suggesting. I have no agenda for my childrens education, there are certain things which I place higher value on than is done in schools, but I'm not trying to brain wash them. I want them to form their own opinions. I practice 'child-led learning' where ds expresses an interest and we find ways to expand upon and back up that interest. Children (just like adults) learn far more when they are interested and can do it in their own time, than learning about something which doesn't remotely interest them, and have to stop and start according to lesson times.

Tigermoth, you might be suprised by your ds. Many children who have been schooled need a period of deschooling where no formal learning takes place. Sometimes it will be months of sitting watching TV or playing computer games, but no child will go on with it forever. They have an innate desire to learn, and I think you'd find that sooner or later your ds would want to do more than just play computer games.

To go back to the point of working while HEing, there are families who work without relying on extended families. It could be that the partners share the work/HE, or in some cases they use freinds or childminders

I agree with your comment that just because a parent has a bad experience of school it doesn't follow that the child will - I certainly didn't say that. But the school system fails a huge number of children in one way or another - I heard on the news just yesterday something about 1 in every 4 children are being bullied - I find that shocking, and there are so many other problems going on within schools. My own problems made me more aware than I might otherwise have been of how things can go wrong. It might be that my 2 would have sailed through and not had any problems, but I wasn't prepared to take that risk.

Lailag, if you've read my earlier posts you will know that by most people's standards I am not remotely 'qualified' to be 'teaching' my kids. But the beauty is I don't need to be. I don't need to know everything. I would only need to know everything if I was planning to just give lectures on whichever subject was in question. All I need to know is where to look for the information we need, and by the time the child is older he will basically be directing his own learning. As for the comment about your ds only being 3.7, I would say it;s never too early, in fact, the earlier the better. The sooner you can research all the options, the easier it will be to make an informed choice when the time comes. My ds was 2.5 when I started looking into it.

Fairymum, my ds also knew his alphabet and could count (not just reciting the numbers either) to 100 when he was 2 1/2. Dd is 2 1/2 and is not even slightly interested! She can count to 10, but just doesn't have the same fascination that ds did and does. I don't mind, I have never pushed either of them.

HMB, the advantage of HEing is that you are not trying to cater your 'teaching' to 30 different children, and as a parent you generally know instinctively what will and will not work with your own child. ANd if what you try doesn't work, well then you try something else, another approach, because you're not dictated to by time and lesson plans

This is also the advantage to not being a teacher, I don't have a way in which I teach. All the learning is geared towards one student. In school they might find a teacher whose teaching style suits them, but by then they might have lost interest after too many teachers whose style didn't suit them

Again, I don't have any specific areas of expertise (although I have subjects which interest me more than others, of course) but I am not setting out to teach. I am guiding my son's learning which is very different. As I just said below, I don't need to know everything, I just need to know where to look.

Alibubbles, I have no idea what the boy/girl ratio is. There are no real concrete figures even of how many people HE, so I don't think statistics like that even exist.

I hated school, but I love to learn. The advantage of my job (journalism) is that I can learn a tremendous amount about all sorts of things that attract my interest for a brief period of time, then move on. I read books, interview experts, real people, search the net, read medical journals etc etc I have learned so much this way and I love it. Yet I hated being taught by other people. I did far better in A levels taught over one year than I did in two year courses, because I lose interest if I can't be passionate and absorbed for a brief period and then move on. I think I lost out by being taught according to a formula rather than being led by my interests.

It follows that if something interests you then you are going to be more open to learning. But it is just not possible, in a class with 30 or so children, each with different interests and attention spans, to tailor the learning to fit their interests.

I have learned far more since school, because I chose to do it. I remember (and I don't think I'm alone here) being at school doing the bear minimum of work in subjects I didn't enjoy...working really slowly, taking 20 minutes to sharpen my pencil, staring out of the window, searching for things in my bag, not being able to find the information I needed - anything to delay or avoid the work. That's hardly a situation conducive to learning. So what that the national curriculum covers all these subjects, it doesn't mean the children are actually taking any of it in. And in a class where there are 30 children, how can one teacher possibly give them all the attention, help and support they need?

Bear with me if I've mentioned this, but when I was 7 I spent a whole term off school as I was in hospital. When I went back I had missed some of the basics in maths - the other subjects didn't really matter, but in maths, if you fail to grasp the basic concepts you can't possibly understand the more complicated ones. I was never offered any support or help to catch up. My parents tried to help, but their way of doing it was different to the way they did it in school and I got even more confused. We were working through these maths books (Alpha, Beta...) and everyone was ahead of me. So when I was the only one still on the first book, the teacher moved me on to the next book without finishing the first - I got even more behind. I never caught up. I am still petrified to take a GCSE in maths, because the whole idea of 'maths' fills me with fear. That said I run a family, manage all the money and plan all the budgetting on my own and with no problems

There is this idea that if they weren't forced to be there, weren't forced to do the work, they wouldn't do it. I think we underestimate children.

Anais, I went to school with children who had been HE-educated on a primary level and also HE-educated children who joined us for certain subjects. I think mainly maths as the parents had choosen not to teach that themselves. I went to a socalled "project" or "open" school which funnily enough was based on many of the same ideas yourself. For example, we didn't have conventional school books, but had to find out what we wanted to know ourselves from other sources (like visiting museums, school library, calling up organisations etc). We were given the same freedom you describe as giving your child.
One big difference, though, was that we were 60 pupils with a team of 4 teachers. One of the main thing this school wanted to teach us was non-academic things like public speaking and just working with other people. We had to a stand up in front of 60 people to present projects and we worked with different groups to learn to work with different types of people. We also had a few SN-children in each class. They had their own support-teacher, but were totally integrated. We had one slightly brain damaged girl and a few boys which I now know had quite severe ADHD. Yes, they were difficult to work with, but I cannot measure how much it taught us about the world. When I look at my DDs school with all middle-class identical children, I worry that she doesn't get exposed to people who are different than herself. I do think we share some of the same concerns about the school system, Anais, but for me it is really important that my dd learns with other chilren. I think she will be inspired and motivated by it and I think it is good for her to meet different kinds of people. I really hope there are children with dyslexia in her class. Sounds like a starnge thing to say, I know, but I really want her to sit and listen to someone struggling to read for 10 minutes like I did at school. I am sure will be bored, but I am also sure it is good for her to see that not everyone copes the same way as she does. It will also be good for her to see children who are less bright or perhaps really struggle at school. I just think that'swhat the world is like. I know you say that you get exposure to the real world at home (or taken out and about), but I don't think you do.

Suew, Yes I do use different teaching styles, and I know that it is the 'new' thing, because I have only just finished training

But the point I was trying to make is that this sort of thing doesn't come naturaly, and I do have to make an effort to make sure that I do it. The problem that I have at the moment is that I am trying to teach A level Biology Kinesthetically, and it isn't a subjec that lends it self to that sort of learning! But I am trying.

And that is for a subject that I love. How much harder would it be to HE your child who want to learn, say Russian, and who's learning style doesn't match yours? And then they might not be able to get the qualifications they want becuase the classes might not exist.

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I have to say that there are some teachers that are excellent but again there are too many that are not.I had some good teachers in school who encouraged learning in a ny way possible but then there were those that believed only a 'teacher could teach'.I was bored in school I loved to read but because I was shy they put me into a class for children who could not read, I learnt things at home for fun because I didn't feel stimulated enough.When one science teacher asked about where things like the word omega came from I knew which shocked him a she'd never had a pupil who knew the greek alphabet(I had learnt it for fun at home)I wrote my maths work out in old arabic numbers as a joke and handed it in on a piece of paper my teacher thought I was weird.In the end I lost interest.I used to be told that I should get out more because I would rather read than play.I have even argued with a teacher in college because she honestly believed that anyone under 30 could not have an opinion on a book and that her opinion was the only one that counted.This is not right.So yes in many ways I have a bad view of the education system.
My children however do not have any problems in this area they are free to learn and discover.A child is naturally curious and people seem to forget this.It used to be that the only way children were educated was at home and that is how we have a lot of the things we have today.These children could use what they had and it meant that their minds were free to wander to a level where they did not think in a box.My children have that same oppurtunity.Like anais my children are different and are learning differently.School cannot cater for my son especially and he would not thrive in that enviroment.
I see points about socialisation skills being repeated in so many different ways on here and I find it odd that no matter what answer is given people still keep repeating themselves.So here goes.
My children talk to people of any age with the same respect.They can socialise in any given circumstances.They have experience of people from all walks of life.They have excellent manners.They do not discriminate for any reason.They have experience of people with difficulties both mental and physical.They have friends and can play with people of all ages.They can think independently of their peers.They are able to look after themselves and are independent.They can debate anything from which TV show they prefer to wether or not the vikings were violent or just settlers using information to back up their argument(obv 3yr old doesn't do all this yet but is starting to use things to back up her own views even if sometimes it means using dora )Even my 3yr old can have an opinion and enjoys learning new things.Reasearch has shown that HE can for a lot of children be extremly beneficial and that HE children work well in the everyday world because they are constantly involved with the reality of life.School however has been shown to produce children who can't think for themselves who go to work expecting a teacher like figure to tell them what to do how to do it and why(listen to some employers complain about their younger staff).I do not see how school represents reality.It does not and it also does not transfer to the real world as well as some believe.
Doormat that was the mag I was on about its supposed to be good.Hope things work out for you.

hmb, I'd find a lot easier to HE my child in Russian than to find a school that taught it!! At least I have a couple of Russian-speaking friends who are fluent, but I have never come accross a school that taught it.

Fairymum, I actually agree with with on most things, but I can't agree that you meet all kinds of people in school. My class at secondary school were practically clones! And they stream by ability so you don't get to meet children with special needs etc. I did, however, meet a huge varity of people when I accompanied my mum to her work with old people in an old people's home, children in a children's home (used to help out and went to their parties etc) and in a 'special' school as they were known in those days. She could never afford childcare in school holidays so I went everywhere with her and that's where I really learned about other people who didn't live in semis with middle class parents. My peers were incredibly judgemental and intolerant on the whole.

Fairymum, I actually agree with with on most things, but I can't agree that you meet all kinds of people in school. My class at secondary school were practically clones! And they stream by ability so you don't get to meet children with special needs etc. I did, however, meet a huge varity of people when I accompanied my mum to her work with old people in an old people's home, children in a children's home (used to help out and went to their parties etc) and in a 'special' school as they were known in those days. She could never afford childcare in school holidays so I went everywhere with her and that's where I really learned about other people who didn't live in semis with middle class parents. My peers were incredibly judgemental and intolerant on the whole.

Aloha, the school I teach in does!!! I think that is why it came to mind as an example

It is a language collage and children can study for GCSEs in French, German, Spanish, Italian and Russian (tho only 2 at a time). At A/s they can also choose to learn Mandarin Chinese as we are twinned with a school in China. Children and staff have gone to visit, and we presently have one staff member there on Sabatical. Sixth formers will be visiting this comming summer holiday. The school offers a wide range of subjcets and we have just brought in Vocational GCSEs alongside the GNVQs we were already running.

I have found that the variation in what is taught is so much greater than when I was at school. Also the range in how it is taught.

Oh and the school I work in is not a posh middle class Comp. A-C pass rates are about 50% and we have an almost 100% 'working class' entry.

HMB surely though languages should be taught at a much earlier age as it is a well known fact that young children are more open to learning other languages and tht the pathways in the brain related to language learning otherwise can shut off.By the time the children get to ks3 or above they are well beyond the learning window sometimes never really hearing a lot of other languages and have to struggle to learn the language.I have never understood why languages are not taught at a young age even if it was just through foriegn songs/opera etc. This at least would help.

Singingmum, I agree. That is why we send our language teachers into primary to work with sclasses at KS2. It would be better at KS1, but at least we are doing something. I'm writing as a Monoglot here!

My children both started French at 3.

If you learn languages early enough, you use different part of the brain than you do when learning as an adult . I'm writing as a scientist here!

I'd have loved to teach you! I dream about quirky, self motivated kids.....and so do the other teachers in the department I work in. I'm sorry you had a lousy time in school, and I know that the state system is far from perfect, but what happened to you would never happen in my class.

All of my lessons have differentiation and extension work built into them. An I ca say that with confidence, as I have jst spent 3 hours planning 4 lessons! Not moaning, you understand, I love it! And I am particularly pleased with the Metosis Dance I have prepared for Year 10. It isn't like it was

Wish I lived near your school then I would seriously think about children going when older.I know there are some good schools etc but am afraid that in my area the one I went to for just over a year which encouraged learning was in ely cardiff(not good area) and has now been closed as their pass rate wasn't high enough.The area it is in is a problem and that is why it ended up closed.The teachers however in the main were good and gave respect to the pupils since then the only schools I am now near are atrocious the primarys are problematic and the comp is orientated towards children whos parents can give money to the school and who's children have extra tutors so the teachers don't have to do much.Bleak I know but thats the way it is although there has been the odd improvement.
Living in wales there is some language taught at a young age but it seems to be like music studies slowly being faded to bare minimum they can get away with.More and more emphasis is being put into sportand if you are not good at sport forget it your going to have trouble.
It's nice to hear of a teachers who care about teaching but I live in an area where this is not the case.Also I am afraid I find school and the curriculum in this country stifling in many ways.

Tell me about it, I grew up in the Rhondda!!

Mind you, I have friend who still teach in the area and they are excellent.

And even the school I went to had some first rate staff. Things have imprved in the 20 years since I left school. KS3 has had a major overhaul that should see improvements over the bnest few years.

Russian was taught at the grammar school in Kent that my BIL attended, though I don't know if that's still the case. I thought schools in Wales had to teach some lessons in Welsh, or am I barking up the wrong tree, here?

I'm sure the aspect of social mix at school varies from area to area. Being in the countryside, we only have one local school and everyone from farmworkers to MP's children attend it. It has an excellent reputation and because it isn't too large, everyone seems to mingle with everyone else. Two of my chldren went to larger senior schools and IME once a school gets to around 1,000 pupils, that's when abilty to cater for the individual gets lost.

Re HE, I think my dd1 would have benefited from being HE'd for the first couple of years. She wasn't that happy to be away from me, (nor I from her) but the only HE'ers I knew then were the sterotypical lentil-eating-sandal-wearers, who really did live at the top of a remote hill. If the internet had been available then, I think I would have given it a go. Interestingly, dd herself, now 16yo, thinks the idea of being HE-ed abhorrent!!

Tigermoth did you check out the links and if so what do you think about them?

Yes some welsh is supposed to be taught but the emphasis is being taken away from this as time goes on.Even in schools that still have set times for welsh they seem to have downsized the amount of phrases etc.It is often taught by people who know very little welsh themselves as they find it pointless or who just don't have any interest.It is I am afraid happening to the more artistic subjects as well.

That's a shame, SM. I had a vision of little people being taught Welsh at an early age thus laying the ground for later languages to be introduced.

I'm in Scotland and education doesn't seem so tied up in knots as in England/Wales. We don't have SATS, for a start. All my children's schools have put emphasise on music, the arts and so on. Post 16 education is broader, as well, with the possibilty of 8 subjects being studied over those years, though that is being tinkered with atm.

singingmum no, haven't had a minute to spare, but now have a window in my day so will scroll down

I have just scanned the six examples of HE given on the 'education otherwise' website.

Going back to my original question, I really want to see an example of parents who home educate yet still work conventional 9 - 5 hours on weekdays and don't have extended family or supportive friends close by to help with HE.

So far I can't see one example of a family set up with both parents are working away from home. Either the parent's work status is not mentioned or when it is, it appears at least one parent is home based and/ or there are lots of other adults on hand to offer support.

Here are some quotes from the site that I've cut and pasted:

Example 1
'The resources available to S include but are not limited to; computer with internet access and interest specific software; the library; a wide range of books; TV programmes; audio equipment; visits and outings that support her interests; continuous support and positive interest and encouragement from me'

Example 2
'We have four teachers in the immediate family and many of our friends and neighbours are also teachers and all have indicated that they are willing and able to help with anything I may not be able to do myself, and they have been a constant support to us. Her father has backed us up all the way with home education and is a great source of encouragement. Many of our friends have taken it on themselves to encourage her and are helping her learn about the environment, local history and geography, gardening and childcare and many other things'

Example 3
'Education will be provided by B's parents:

PH, Minister of Religion,

SH, Sculptor/Painter, working from home/church premises'

I wish I had more time to look on other sites. Sorry I don't. Singingmum, if you or anyone else has the time, can you cut and paste some examples to show how HE is possible if both parents lack extended family and also work away from home?

Tigermoth - it depends on the age of your children. I have a friend who is a single mother of a 5 year old who home educates and also works (she works shifts). Obviously she requires childcare whilst she is working - her daughter attends the local Montessori sometimes (they take children up to the age of 8) and goes to a childminder the rest of the time thet my friend works. With younger children it is an issue - school does provide free childcare - both parents working means you have to find alternative childcare if you both work at the same time. Of course older children (teenagers) can often be trusted alone - I know of parents who set work/ agree with a child what needs to be achieved, and leave the child to get on with it whilst they are \at work. But this would obviously only be appropriate for older children.