contacting mumsnet about article

[singingmum]

Does anyone know how to contact mumsnet as I would like to know why they wrote such an ill informed article on home education.I know I have commented on this on another thread but the article is still there.I am severly dissapointed that this was written in such a way as to make He seem like a foolish thing to do.The article was badly researched and had no information that was helpful.Mumsnet has been a godsend on the advice front except for this and I am a little shocked that they have done this.
Any help or opinions appreciated.

Oh, btw... found an interesting factoid last night completely by chance.

Thomas Edison (of lightbulb fame) was home educated after his teacher called him "dim-witted"!

Okay, doesn't really sway the argument either way, but I found funny that I hadn't really read much about HE at all before this thread, and now it keeps popping up everywhere!

Jimjams - find it hard to believe (as in I'm shocked) that kids do that - re the homework question. Presumably they must think they're being clever.

cheeky question I apologise in advance taking one of those steiner educated now very- successful-at-chosen-career adults: How would they home educate their children for 10 years? would they or should they give up their career to do so?

I don't need convincing that HE works for many, and for some children and parents it is the only real option. I think jimjams is right in saying choosing HE is no worse and no better than choosing school. It depends on circumstances.

But but but... from the adult's selfish career and fulfilling personal dreams point of view, is HE a harder road to travel than sending your children to school? To me it seems so. Someone tell me I am wrong!

good point tm

They'd send their kids to a steiner school tigermoth (or they's run away and rebel and do the opposite- tough exam achieving school )

Of course its harder. One reason that ds1 goes to school is because I get respite then. i reckon I could HE him fairly easily when he is verbal (if?) but if I was to home ed him whilst non verbal I would need to employ people or find volunteers to help.

Mind you the career question is irrelevent to me/ I'm of far too shaky gound with ds1 to think about a career.

It is MUCH harder for parents to HE than to send to school.... I mean send yiour kids to school and you are rid of them for a few hours and someone is in charge to educate them and teaching them ABCs.... I am being a bit cheecky here.... but that's what it is.
People always think HE is selfish... I think it is quite the opposite! But it is not for everyone and no one is suggesting it should be.

FairyMum, Apology accepted, and now I'm sorry for being so abrupt.

Kids are far more accepting about these things than adults. And what child doesn't wish they didn't have to got to school?

You say school is a huge part of life, but it's completely artificial - not like anything that most people will ever experience again. I don't think it teaches much about life - certainly very little of use.

I'm suprised that you would be unconcerned about your child being understimulated. IMO it is this which determines a child's attitude to learning. If they are bored then they're soon going to find other ways of amusing themselves. I want to instill in my children a lifelong love of learning. Being bored in school (or constantly struggling) can turn a child off learning for life, and IMO that;s a tragedy.

I don't mind whether my children turn into brain surgeons or dustmen, rocket scientists or cleaners. That's not important to me, what is important is that they are happy and fulfilled.

Schools were initially set up at a time when the majority of the population were illiterate. These days they are unnecessary (although I accept that in one form or another they are here to stay), they are little more than childcare so that parents can go out to work.

Tigermoth, HE is not irreversable, if at any time and for any reason it didn't work for any of us then we'd have to reassess the situation and come up with a solution to suit. However, I don't see any reason for that to happen, but hey, never say never

As far as your question about life ambitions, well I guess it would be a case of weighing up priorities. If your dreams were so important then I guess you probably wouldn't consider HE in the first place.

Aloha, you raise an important point about fitting in at school. I never fitted in at shcool, but it never bothered me and therefore I was never particularly affected by peer pressure.

My sister was popular, and always afraid of not fitting in. She took up smoking at 13, slept around from an early age, was constantly concerned about her weight. She has been in 2 physically abusive relationships, and still seeks approval in everything she does.

Those people I knew at school who were popular were always the ones affected most by peer pressure, they are the same ones who have suffered from eating disorders; abusive relationships; promiscuous sex etc.

I would rather my children developed their own sense of self.

Georgina, Very few of the resources I use are specifically HE resourses. We use lots and lots of books (I am addicted to childrens books!), theres also a fantastic range of books by some one called Peggy Kaye (Games for...Learning/math/writing) worth a look, I think they're great. I've got Base 10 blocks for maths and I'm trying to get hold of some cheap cuisenaire rods - both of which are good for hands-on, visual maths, we do lots of jigsaws and games like dominoes and boggle and strategy games too. Children learn from everything they do, you don't really need contrived situations.

I'm still struggling to find language resources. I started with a Muzzy course, but we didn't like it. I've got an Usborne video, and I have some software and tapes on my want list! Usborne also do a fab range of language books. A friend (preferably native speaker) who speaks the language is best I think, I know someone, but unfortunately she lives too far away :-( I think you've just got to follow ds's interest and search out resources accordingly.

So far we've not been stopped by the truant patrols, but ds is only just 5. Like Singingmum says, you can produce a card, but they should just leave you alone if you say you HE.

Thought this might interest some.

Thanks anais, I'll look out for those. I'd love to know someone who was a spanish native speaker But I thought a tape/video would be the next best thing (if they had native speakers on it). Will have a flip through the usborne stuff though as well.

It's a shame there's no where to "rent" a lot of these more expensive video sets to see if you'd get on with the format before you buy

Georgina, there are several language learning resources on the net, here are some from my favourites list (sorry, couldn't be bothered to put them all into links!)

198.68.4.2/~language/
www.studyspanish.com/
www.songsforteaching.com/Spanish.html
www.bilingual-supplies.co.uk/
www.bbc.co.uk/languages/spanish/

Some of these have sound clips, and I'm sure there are more. The BBC site looks particularly good.

As I said before we had the Muzzy course, and I was not impressed at all. You can often pick up cheap language courses on Ebay, and you could try the library too. I've been told that a good way to teach languages (preferably if you have some basis yourself) is to buy books in your chosen langage, you can find some here but they look quite expensive.

HTH

Sorry, after all that the link doesn't work :-(

This is the URL:

www.europeanbookshop.com/

wow - that should keep me busy Thanks anais!

This is an interesting article.

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anais, I know you've said earlier that HE your child is not an irreversable decision for you - I think that's a very sane view I think you're spot on when you say you'll take things from day to day and if it's not working for you or your child, then you'll think again.

I agree with fairymum's point that being ignored, passed over or bored in school is a valuable life experience IME - as long as most of the time children are stimulated and feel valued and happy in class. Speaking personally, my son is a confident, attention demanding boy and I'd hate him to feel life revolves around his needs, that there is something intrinsically special about him or that adults are going to hang on his every word. It would make him horribly brattish, to be blunt, and he'd be in for a nasty shock when he entered the real world. If I had a shyer child I might think differently of course.

I don't know if HE children ever feel ignored and bored too - a generalisation, but I hope they do Even the most dedicated HE parent is human and must have off days. If HE children work in groups, presumably sometimes they will feel some other child's needs comes before theirs?

Jimjams, thanks for answering my cheeky qustion on steiner educated adults. Actually picking a steiner child was a bad example. What I was trying to say is this:

Imnagine you are an HE child who then grows up to have a brilliant career. You and your parents firmly believe HE helped get you there - you have negative feelings and experiences of school on the whole.

You then have children. You want to give them the same start in life that you benefitted from. So do you consider giving up your brilliant career for 10 years? isn't that a bit of a dead end? or do you shift the HE responsibility onto your partner and other adults? Or ....you send your children to school?

I can't see how HE can work through the generations. Not saying it is wrong to HE. But if HE has realised the potential in a child, and the child as an adult is equipped to follow a demanding career, then in order to do this, they may well need to send their own children to school. So in this way, HE's long term benefits can only be realised as long as schools exist.

Oh i see what you're getting at tigermoth. I don't know- probably depends on your personal views. For example I have the qulifications to allow me to have a "brilliant" career and to be honest I'd rather walk over hot coals. For me a career seems something shallow, and unimportant and something I can't really take very seriously. Doesn't mean I don't do things away from my children just for me, but for me a brilliant career is something I'm more than happy to give up.

If you wanted to carry on with your brilliant carerr then to be honest it would be easy-you could hire wonderful, stimulating tutors (as you could easily afford it). Or you may decide school was a better option. It's hard to say without having real people iyswim, but I do think the brilliant career choice has nothing to do with HE and more to do with how careerist a particular parent is.

Looking at Scummy's points (much further down this thread) of what she gained from school and then goes on to say they are not "educational" - well of course those things are educational, they are all part of learning. Children have to learn everything including how to be part of a group, etc.
My view of education is that only a little bit of it happens at school and most of it happens at home and in society generally. I do, without labelling them as such, "projects" with my child all the time. For example, dd (aged 6)saw the film Titanic during the summer hols and became totally fascinated by what happened to the supposedly unsinkable ship. I found out soon after that there was a Titanic Exhibition at the Science Museum so we went to it and dd was able to touch a piece of the hull as well as learn all about what happened. We bought a book there, based on a true event where a real child who had been on the Titanic lost and refound his toy polar bear. When dd went back to school this term , she took the book in and told her teacher that she had been to the exhibition. Dd had to give a little "talk" to her class explaining what the Titanic was and then the teacher read out her book as the class story on that day.
Everything that dd becomes interested in, we try to "follow through" so that there is an educational element, and dd learns "how to learn".
School, for me, is a place where learning can be begun but more often is consolidated (at least at primary level). We try to make connections between things, so where dd is learning about Italy at school we will take her to see Turner and Venice, for example. Then we will try to take her to Venice next holiday.
I have to say that taking her to art exhibitions since she was tiny has opened up many avenues of thought and discussion for her.

Loads of points to address here.
1)My partner and I are not 'well-resourced' in a monetary sense we are on a low income and find a lot of the things we need or would like expensive.We give up things to give our children what they need.
2)My son will listen to others read and help.He has a younger sister and he will help her,she in turn will help her younger cousin.
3)Rejection and boredom.They still experience these.Peer in our area sometimes reject them as I mentioned further down.As for boredom my son sometimes gets bored as do all children,but after a small period of time he will find something to do be it playing with his friends or sister to reading a book(usually on dinosaurs).My son and daughter get on very well despite a 6yr age gap so am lucky.He also spends time reading to her.
4)I do not speak any languages fluently as had to give up french to do childcare as school would not allow both.I learn the language with my children using a wide range of resources from the internet to childrens dual language books.This works very well as my children have an example that adults do not know everything and that learning is something that can be done at any age.
5)Social skills are not well learnt in schools hardly a sociabal enviroment when told not to talk except when teacher says so.My children go to HE days at our local museum and other places.This means that they meet people from a wide range of backgrounds.They meet people in everyday life also and this means that they can interact with a wide age range which is much more natural.
6)My family eat at a table .While doing so we discuss many subjects we look at arguments/info from all sides and try to keep an open mind on things.Our children are encouraged to make their own decisions.They have their own minds and are actually allowed to use them.In school they have the opinions of many yes but they are mainly influenced by what the teachers say is correct and the fashionable thing to believe according to whatever 'idol' is at the top that week.How is this more acceptable?
7)On the career front if you visit education otherwise and HEAS you will find links to all kinds of families with wide ranging careers and experience.Myself I am working towards a career as a fiction writer which gives me plenty of flexibility.While ill in hospital my partner worked a 39 hour week looked after the house and taught and cared for the children with some help from our parents.He is often a larger family decision as it can help a lot to have support from your wider family.In our family my parents have a diff. view to my in-laws and we have a diff opinion to both at times.There is also influence from others outside the family so therefore the children are exposed to many ways of life.
I hope if you look at anis links and the websites I have suggested you will,wether you agree or not at least start to understand that we know HE may not be a choice for some for whatever reason,but that we are not ill informed arrogant, naieve or selfish.We only want what is best for our children and like the choice between disposable nappies or re-usable,Each person has their own ideas as to which is right.
Cam it's funny that what you do to back up your childs education is what HE families do on a day to day basis.I am glad that you are able to do this as you obviously have the best of both worlds.
The socialisation issue is a sticking point for a lot of people.I hope that reading some of the reports and info on all websites suggested will infact help those who believe it is an issue to see that for most HEers it is not.

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I am all new to this but I'm reading the discussions here with more and more interest! It seems to me that HE is also a kind of school i.e. a group of children and teachers (group of parents) but not bound to silly rules as a conventional school. Like FairyMum I grew up/ was educated abroad and am not very keen on the UK schooluniforms and the emphasis on exam results etc. So from this point of view I would consider HE, especially as I suspect my ds would not be "mature" enough to start traditional school at 5 years (are you allowed to delay this for one year?). However, especially when he gets older, I do not think that a single person ("even me as his mum" )would be able to teach him "all he needs to know" and would have to rely on "qualified teachers".

Lailag.The whole question of wether or not I could cope with the later area of HE did concernme for a long time after I started to HE.I have had to face this before I expected to as my son is determined to do GCSE when he decides he is ready.I have had to start some subjects at GCSE level as he is very good at some subjects.This has proved a lot easier than I thought.The things in GCSE are often a repetition of things learnt at earlier stages of education.My son knows that if he wanted to go to school then that is his choice,he has told us that he does not want to go as he would have to wait to long to learn the things he is interested in.Also that he wishes to aim to do some GCSE's at an earlier age than is normal.These are his choices and we support him.
In doing some subjects at a higher standard he has finally found a challenge and is happy with this.We are also happy as this keeps him interested unlike a lot of subject matter aimed at his age group.I allow my son to guide a lot of his education and plan on allowing my daughter to do the same.I go through everything before he looks at it to make sure I can understand what it is he wishes to learn.I have so far found no difficulty in doing so and actually am finding it easier than when I first learnt the subjects myself.Teachers spend so much time on crowd control these days that a lot of info that is neccessary is not taught.I do use curriculum books as a refrence and we use a few workbooks but most work is following on from these and other points of interest.HE actually becomes easier as we continue as we find that we learn as well as the children.
We have always said that if we find something we cannot teach or learn and teach then we will find the money somehow to employ a tutor.In HE no avenue is ever closed and although sometimes it is difficult(ie while ill or during some emotional prob.or sometimes money worries)there is always a way forward.GCSE isn't as scarey as it looks or so we have found.

Tigermoth, another benefit of HE is that children learn to entertain themselves. In a classroom, when a child is bored what can they do??? I remember many an hour sitting staring out of the window, you don't learn much that way. When an HE child is bored (generally speaking) they have the capacity to go off and find something to do. They don't have to have activities provided for them all the time, they can occupy themselves.

I'm not sure I follow your logic with the Steiner thing. Everyone is different, just because you acknowledge that something contributed to your success, or just what you became, doesn't mean you will want to replicate it for your children. It's about priorities, isn't it? You work out what is more important, just like anyone else.

Singingmum makes a good point about learning alongside children.

Robinw makes a good point about all children being special, and while I don't want my son to think he is any better than anyone else, I do want him to believe that everyone is unique and special.

Lailag, HE is a different experience for everyone who does it, so it's difficult to generalise.

Five is the compulsory age for education. You can only delay school if you are providing an alternative.

this might answer some questions.

singingmum replying from other thread.
We have really tried everything for ds to behave in school.
We have "bribed" him with the pictures every weekend.
Also we enrolled him into a local football team. His behaviour in school improved then as he had a "reward" at the end of a good week but the last month it has slipped again.
At home he will write reams of facts and stories.We dont need to ask him to do things as he loves a pen in his hand.He plays on the computer sometimes or his playstation/nintendo.
I just dont know what to do.

As for all you H/E I take my hat off to all of you