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Education

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contacting mumsnet about article

182 replies

singingmum · 22/10/2003 14:01

Does anyone know how to contact mumsnet as I would like to know why they wrote such an ill informed article on home education.I know I have commented on this on another thread but the article is still there.I am severly dissapointed that this was written in such a way as to make He seem like a foolish thing to do.The article was badly researched and had no information that was helpful.Mumsnet has been a godsend on the advice front except for this and I am a little shocked that they have done this.
Any help or opinions appreciated.

OP posts:
Angeliz · 25/10/2003 12:23

btw i didn't mean that to be argumentative, it's just i am interested in all views and we are considering all schools Thanks for your reply before

anais · 25/10/2003 12:26

Angeliz, I wasn't suggesting a private school was a cop out, I was responding to Scummy's comment

"so isn't H/E a cop out because parents should be insisting on their child's right to a good education according to their needs and not opting out of the system entirely"

She is suggesting that by HEing we are opting out of the state system (and our responsibility of citizens to it???). I meant I don't think HE is a cop-out, unless you assume anything other than a state education is a cop out. Am I making any sense????

Angeliz · 25/10/2003 12:31

totally! I know what you mean i just wondered if there was a general feeling that if people send their kids to a private school it's a cop out! I am in a total turmoill at the moment about dd's education. We have looked at one private school and got info for 4 stae schools which i'll also be visiting. She's only 2.5 and "MAY" be going somewhere for a few days next year but since i started looking.the more i think about it, the more i feel i should waut till she's 4-5.........yet she's so looking forward to it........being a parent is SO complicated!;0

anais · 25/10/2003 12:47

Isn't it just!

Personally I can't see how manking any decision you feel to be the best for your child can possibly be a cop out. Surely it's a parent's duty to do what they feel to be best for their child. Isn't chucking your child into the local school without question a cop out? Certainly it's the easy option.

I remember that turmoil well - I was in the same place 2 1/2 years ago. We have found the perfect solution for us and are very happy. I'm sure you'll work out what's best for you. Try and relax, and you'll get there. I hope you work it out soon

robinw · 25/10/2003 14:04

message withdrawn

tigermoth · 25/10/2003 17:44

anias, you sound so happy with your choice and you say your son is thriving. I really admire you for doing what you do. I know haven't your dedication. If you have the time, it would be really good to read about a typical( I can hear you saying no typical day!) or week for you, the nuts and bolts of how you educate your son.

It wouldn' be my choice because I just wouldn't be interested in educating my sons all day, every day. I want someone else ( lots of someone elses) to share the burden and the joys. I know you can get tutors, have group sessions and all that, but in the end I just don't want to feel my son's education is my responsibilty. It would scare me witless.

If I was happily home educationg my son, and he was thriving, I would still worry about the future. Not on my son's behalf - I believe HE children can get any qualificatons they need through private tutoring and further education colleges. No, I would worry about me and my continuing commitment. How I'd see it, 1 or 2 years of home educating my children is one thing. 10 years( or much more if you have several children) is IMO another matter. That's a huge chunk out of your life. I'd be thinking of all the life changing events that could happen - falling in love, finding and leaving a partner, finding your new partner does not agree with HE, or does but then changes his mind, suffering serious illness, wanting to move to another part of the world etc. And home educating throughout. And what about life after your children no longer need home educating? If they go to school, at least you have more time to study and work and have some sort of career to return to, if a career is what you want. At least you have the choice. I'm sure an HE parent could study alongside their children, but what about working, building a career or simply following their own dreams?

And if your commitment wavers, for whatever reason, yet your children are totally happpy with HE, don't like schools, then what do you do? how do you say that mummy has now had enough?

I can see what scummymummy is getting at about the need to have more than one educational influence on your children. I know I'd want my HE children to build up very strong and lasting relationships with other adults who teach them. I'm sure HE people will say that is totally possible. But at the end of the day, if I decided to pull the plug on HE, those adults could not step in and fill the breach, I imagine. They are only there as long as I choose to home educate.

I think you are a brave woman anais, this is not a rant against your decision, but I'm just trying to put across my own worries about the decision.

WideWebWitch · 25/10/2003 18:25

Anais, just wanted to say how much I enjoy reading your views on HE.

anais · 25/10/2003 20:39

Thank you, www, it's something I feel really passionate about. I'm not trying to 'convert' anybody, but I do think it's important that people know it's an option, which sadly, an awful lot of people don't.

RobinW. I think back to my school days and I don't remember being inspired by any of my teachers either. I liked a couple of them, but I certainly wasn't inspired by them.

I do the same as what you said - relate the learning to what interests the children, although to be honest, at this stage they're pretty much open to anything, which makes life easier! I'm sure it won't always be this simple! The point is that children are much more likely to learn and remember stuff if they enjoy it. And on a one-to-one basis, amd as the person who knows and loves them best, I am in the idea position to make their learning a pleasure.

kmg1 · 25/10/2003 20:46

As many regulars on here know we had a tough time with ds1 when he was 4-5. When he started school at 5 he had all sorts of dire predictions hanging over him, and I certainly considered HE as an option if it didn't work out, especially as an alternative to being labelled a 'problem child'.

In the event his school is fantastic - over a year in he has really settled down. But the point I am wanting to make is that I thought I could do a good job with HE, possibly a better job than school ... I was completely wrong. I have been STUNNED by the benefit ds1 gets from daily assemblies - he learns loads from this environment, and I couldn't begin to duplicate this sort of thing at home. The school has visiting artists, poets, theatre groups, puppets, etc., He has benefitted immensely form learning in a class environment, discussing results of experiments with others, bouncing ideas off one another in children's philosophy classes, 'belonging to the school family', sharing in the successes and achievements of others, ... the list is very, very long.

Obviously this is in the context of a good school, and extremely good (state) school, but sometimes I think people underestimate the benefits.

anais · 25/10/2003 21:24

Tigermoth, thank you for your kind words. I am very happy with the decision I've made, it seems to be working out better than I ever expected just at the moment.

A typical day or week? I could point you in the direction of my blog... Hmm, well as you predicted, there is no typical day or week, that's the beauty of it

We do all kinds of things, sometimes we do all kinds of 'educational' things, sometimes we do none. We cook, clean (important life skill!), play with lego/trainsets/playmobil (design and technology, or whatever they call it these days!), play board games (maths, learning to share, take turns, logic etc), run round in the garden and play on bikes (PE!), watch schools TV, read lots of books, play with educational CD-roms.

I have a heap of workbooks, (English, maths, science) which we dip into when the mood takes us. If I feel he isn't doing enough I will leave a worksheet lying round, and he usually takes the bait! One of his favourite things to do is to type on the computer. He keeps a diary which he will type an entry for as and when he feels like it, and he types stories he's made up. He's also really interested in poetry at the moment, so we're reading a lot of that. For maths we do lots of counting - he can count in 2s, 5s and 10s and do simple addition. We do weighing and measuring too, and playing with manipulatives. Geography is easy as he is obsessed with maps! He loves to plot routes to various places. We take part in postcard/xmas card swaps with people from HE email lists which we plot on the map. We're doing a project about our town, and we're going to study England and Britain and then do some other countries. The town project kind of covers history too, and I'm also planning a chronological study of history - starting right from the first humans (It's really fascinating, I'd forgotten I really loved history at school!) We do loads of art, drawing, painting, collages etc. I want to start doing some art history - and study some artists, but I need to do a bit of research first. Science is mostly through gardening and cooking, and we kept tadpoles over the summer, which were really interesting to watch.

We go on lots of walks, collect 'treasures'(leaves, fircones etc) which we might then use for art, or look up the names of if we don't know, we go swimming, go on visits (in the last few months we've visited a windmill; a watermill, the local museum, a castle etc). My dad is currently teaching him chess (which he has picked up in two lessons!)

Whatever we're doing I see it as a learning experience - I don't see the need to do something 'educational' all the time.

Hmm, anyway, I hope that begins to answer your question! It's not comprehensive, by any means!

It's funny, what you said, because I do feel that my children's education is my responsibility, and I'm not prepared to hand the responsibility over to someone who may not have their best interests at heart.

I try not to worry about the future. Having children is a big responsibility, whether or not you choose to HE. Whatever life changing...erm, changes, may come our way, we'll figure it out as we go. In the same way that a move may force a child to move from a school they love, if it had to happen then I guess it would. I can't envisage a situation which would make me want to stop, but if that were to happen then we'd just play it by ear, I guess.

As far as life after HE, well, I'm planning to do an OU degree, which will keep my brain working and improve my prospects, but I have no great career plans in mind. I plan to childmind, and I think once the children are old enough, I will foster.

There is no reason why I can't pursue my dreams - that is what I'm doing with the degree. But for now, the children are my main focus, and I'm happy with that - I get restless now and again, but who doesn't, and I plan to keep moving forward. For now it is enough to enjoy my children and their learning.

anais · 25/10/2003 21:32

KMG, I'm glad things have worked out for you.

Had I been able to find a good school, then HE would never have even been a consideration. At the time I was looking at schools I wasn't driving, so there was a limit to how far I could have travelled. Nevertheless I looked at all the local schools. There were a couple of pretty good primary schools, but in all cases, where the primary schools were reasonable, the junior schools, or even the secondary schools, were not.

There are some good schools around (dare I suggest that they are the minority?) but IMO they still have inherent problems.

GeorginaA · 25/10/2003 21:34

Ooo anais - you have a blog? Are you happy to post the URL (or if you prefer can you email it to me?) - would be interested to read!

ScummyMummy · 25/10/2003 21:45

Here are some of the things I did at school and feel were of great benefit, that I think would be difficult for a H-Edded child to do:

*Fell passionately in love with my infant school teacher
*Ran out to tell my mum what I'd been doing at the end of every day @infants
*Argued with a primary school teacher I didn't like- and got into trouble for it- when I felt he was being unfair to another child
*Forgot money for a school trip and apologised to the primary school secretary off my own bat- many brownie points
*Got detention for being rude to a science teacher- no brownie points at all
*Became very good friends with a child that my parents would have disapproved of
*sneaked out to the shops illegally at dinnertime
*played french horn badly in a school band
*co-ran the school animal club
*walked to school with a friend every day

Those are just a few things off the top of my head- and I just realised that there's nothing "educational" per se there! I think the stuff a kid can get from even a mediocre school is exciting and irreplaceable. The academic stuff- well, you can get that anywhere but the other learning is the unique and important bit. I genuinely wouldn't want to deny my kids their version of the above. I think that home-edding WOULD deny them that, especially up to the age when they could take themselves off to college or the after-school club or whatever alone because I'd just be too involved in every aspect of their lives- in effect their constant companion- and I think that potentially that could be very limiting and smothering for all concerned.

I know I probably sound a bit naive when I talk about "opting out of the system." Believe me, I do know that pockets of the educational system are really shite and agree that trying to change shite into gold single-handedly is a complete waste of time! I spend quite a lot of my working life in state schools in a "deprived" area of London- mainstream, special, pupil referral units etc and I see the good the bad and the ugly, as well as the desperate to improve and do well by the kids who roll up, whatever their needs... And I can genuinely say that the shite and the excellent are a very small minority but the desperate to do well by the kids who roll up are a much, much higher percentage than you might think and are well worth working with to get the kids concerned a good education in the round. I am looking forward to doing the same with my own children's local primary, which is in an area, according to the ofsted report, in which "indicators of high social class are absent" (The cheek! I am dead posh, I'll have them know!) and has indifferent SATs results BUT lovely staff and sweet kids, I thought. I think and hope my kids will gain hugely from the experience of going there and I honestly believe that if they were Home-edded they would be missing out and not only because, like Tigermoth, I would feel driven to the very brink of my sanity if I had to teach the wee bratlets fulltime!

ps: So agree with www that your posts on this are fascinating, anais, even though I'm not quite convinced by your arguments (yet?). Sounds like your son is having a really good time at the moment, anyway. I also would be v interested to hear about a "typical" day for him if you have time/energy/inclination to post more.

ScummyMummy · 25/10/2003 21:47

Ooo! You've already posted about a typical day! Hurrah- I shall read it now!

ScummyMummy · 25/10/2003 21:54

Agree with your post kmg1- I think it is very possible to underestimate the benefits of a good school too. I'm so hoping that my kids' school will be as fab as your son's sounds!

ScummyMummy · 25/10/2003 22:06

Sounds pretty idyllic, anais.

(Still think he might like school at some point though!

ScummyMummy · 25/10/2003 22:07

Bad winky- go away.

anais · 25/10/2003 22:19

The experience of a HE'd child s never going to echo that of one who goes to school, but everyone's life experience is different. After reading your list I have sat here and thought about my own school experience and to be honest there are only 2 things which really stand out for me - one was a WW2 project we did (aged 9 or 10) which really struck a chord with me. The other was a school play where I played Queen Elizabeth 1st - we performed it in assembly and were asked to do an encore!

In contrast to yours, both my choices are based around the actual learning we were doing - which I guess goes to prove my point about everyones experience being different.

I hated school from day one. I wasn't popular, I was bullied a little, but was painfully shy and found the whole set up of school intimidating. Of course there were good times, but most of it was misery for me - I left suffering from depression aged 11.

My children can study the war and join a drama group to recreate their versions of my experiences. Yours, like you say are a little more difficult, but not impossible. Their experiences in the early years of their lives will be far wider than would ever be possible in school. And what you describe as exciting and irreplacable is IMHO overshadowed and outweighed by the negative aspects of school.

As I have acknowledged, there are good schools, and I know Ofsted reports and test results don't give the whole picture, but I just feel the chances of getting the right set up, and finding that situation which supports my child's needs is too much of a gamble for something as important as his education.

anais · 25/10/2003 22:23

Lol, at the moment it is pretty idyllic, (well, sometimes, anyway!) there is nothing better than the feeling where the penny drops and you see them understand something for the first time!

If he does want to go to school at any stage, I won't stop him, although I won't encourage it either. We take each day as it comes.

anais · 25/10/2003 22:27

Oooh, and for Georgina, and anyone else who might be interested, my blog is here It's a bit patchy though, I'm not very good at keeping it up to date...

I'm going to go away now and leave you all in peace

ScummyMummy · 25/10/2003 22:43

One more question, anais, and maybe a bit of a mean one... don't mean it that way but am curious- please do tell me to bog off if you don't want to answer it. Do you think part of the reason you're so keen to HE is that you yourself had such a horrible, negative experience at school? I felt really sad reading that there were only 2 good things that you could remember and that you were so unhappy. Sounds like a really awful school

anais · 25/10/2003 23:16

Ok, so I didn't really go away...

Well Scummy, I guess my own education has some influence on the decision to HE, but it's not the only reason. As I said before, I had fully intended to send my children to school. The idea of HE had not occured to me before I picked up the book about it.

The ironic thing is that the school, or schools, I went to were pretty good ones. When I was first looking at schools for ds, my infant school was on the top of my list!

I am and always have been very shy and quiet and found the school setting very difficult. I have been speculating as to whether my son might have Aspergers and my Mum wondered if the same might apply to me. I find forming and maintaining relationships (friendships and 'relationship' relationships) very difficult (am I painting a picture of a sociopath who should under no circumstances be trusted with children, let alone HE????). I would love to be 'normal' in this respect, I can maintain casual aquaintances but I can't cope with seeing too much of one person, or being around people too much - I get overwhelmed and back off, and people take offence, and stop inviting me out and whatever, and I don't make enough effort and I should phone people more (note to self, phone friend...)...erm, where was I going with this????

I think the point I was trying to make is that school is not for everyone. My own experience has proved that point, and I am aware that it can be a very damaging place for some people. It was not a good place for me, and while I did have good times at school, most of it was very very difficult for me.

It has certainly influenced my decision to some extent, but everyone's experiences colour their views, don't they? It's unavaoidable.

ScummyMummy · 25/10/2003 23:36

Anais- of course you're bloody not painting a picture of a sociopath, you bananahead! You sound great to me and as I said I think your kids are having an idyllic time of things. However, I do think your school failed you, aspergers or no aspergers. I find keeping up with my lovely friends difficult too, if it's any comfort, and have a v odd, sweet little son who loves numbers and batteries(?!) as well as an delightful but impulsive mini-whirlwind who thinks karate chopping the innocent is funny- so I do know where you're coming from a bit, I think. Have you thought about the pros and cons trying to get either ds or yourself diagnosed, btw?

anais · 25/10/2003 23:48

Thanks Scummy, I do sometimes think I'm maybe giving out too much information!

kids are great, aren't they? I can certainly relate to the mini-whirlwind, I wish I knew where my two get their energy from, I want some!

Erm, as far as diagnoses, I think it's too late for me, but I'm wrangling with the decision over him. Not sure whether it's a good thing or not. For years when I was going through the really difficult bits, my Mum was told that she was an overprotective Mum (hanging on to her youngest) and I was just a naughty child. They threatened her with having me taken into care and she had to fight b**y hard to get people to take her seriously before I was diagnosed with depression. I guess part of me is afraid of getting the same reaction, being told I'm a crap mum. I just don't know. I'm sure we'll get there in the end though.

ScummyMummy · 26/10/2003 00:18

Jesus, that's awful, anais. Your poor mum must have gone through hell. I think the benefit of adult diagnosis can be in the understanding of yourself- maybe for you things like WHY it has been so consistently difficult to maintain relationships with friends and others and what might help you to proceed from there... A bit like schools though, you do need to find a good professional who knows what they're doing to gain significant benefits...

As for your ds- if you decide there are benefits to diagnosis and you try that route only to be told you are a crap mum, PLEASE email me offline because I'd be more than happy to go ballistic at whosoever suggested such a thing and I should be able to put you in touch with a range of peeps who could help you complain vociferously. ggrrrrrrrrrrrrr at the very thought of you being branded as a crap mum...