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Does anyone REALLY send their children to private school?

561 replies

Mosschops30 · 18/10/2005 16:35

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OP posts:
speedymama · 21/10/2005 15:43

I have not read all this thread but before I dash to tend to the twins who are waking from their nap, I thought I would share this, FWIW.

My colleague at work told me about a recent experience of a friend of hers who works in a highly sort after private school. She is a reception teacher so I suppose the children are 4 & 5 years old. At the start of this term she had 4 & 5 year old siblings enrolled into her class. Their parents work in international business and they have just arrived back into this country from Hong Kong. From day 1 it was clear that their would be problems with these children because of their challenging behaviour which involves, screaming & shouting, pushing others and just not doing as they are told. It appears that the parents have no time for them and it has been left to a succession of nannies to "raise them". Anyway, the crunch came when they decided to start stabbing the other children in their year group with knives whilst they were eating their lunch. The teacher (who has been at the school for over 20 years) told the head that either they were removed from her class or she would be resigning. The children have now been moved to another school.

One of the things that occurred to me was had this been a state school, then people would have used it to justify their prejudices of the state school system. Badly behaved children come from all sorts of families and usually, it can be down to the family circumstances as in this case (I believe the children were crying out for attention from their absent parents).

The other thing that occurred to me was how readily the school got rid of the problem and no doubt that is how private schools on the whole maintain the veneer of not having to contend with unmotivated and undisciplined pupils. The state system on the other hand tries to do something to help problem pupils as much as it can until exclusion becomes the only option left. Which is the better system, I wonder?

I think people tend to rubbish state schools unnecessarily without acknowledging that private schools too have their problems. My husband and I went to a below average state schools, both have completed degrees and PhDs in chemistry and both are working in well paid jobs with more responsibility than some of our private educated contempories. Too be honest, in my year group, the private educated students did less well than the rest of us because they had trouble motivating themselvees. I guess that they were use to being coached to pass exams and at university, its down to your own desire whether you work or not. My sister in law is about to start post-doctoral research at a top US university and again, she has exceeded the privately educated students from her year.

From my personal experience, if a child has the ability and the motivation, they will succeed wherever you send them. My husband is categorically against sending our twin sons to private school because his cousins (parents extremely rich)were privately educated, and left school with no GCSE. One is now working on the railways repairing track and the other is still deciding what to do (age 28 years old).

Last point, some posters have stated that they prefer to spend their money on private education rather than holidays, designer clothes etc. Most people who send their kids to state schools don't do so in order to go on holiday, buy designer clothes, they do so because they hope that their chosen school will give their child a decent education. Similarly, for those sending their children to private school. However, I can guarantee that there are more designer clad pupils at private school than the state ones!. My husbands cousins only ever wore and still wear designer clothes!

suedonim · 21/10/2005 15:53

MartianB, I take your point about a certain size of school being necessary for adequate facilities. This scheme for small learning communities addresses that and seems to be very successful. My boys went to a school with about 1,400 pupils where not all the staff knew each other, let alone the children! Dd1 has been to a smaller school, around 900 pupils and it seems to operate as an entirety much more successly, more closely knit and intimate.

SueW · 21/10/2005 17:37

That's interesting. DD's school which takes pupils from 3-18 has six different sites: intro nursery for up to 20 pupils; Lower school (primary) which has second level nursery and YR-Y3; Upper School (primary) Y4-Y6; Lower School (Y7&8); Main School (Y9-11) and Sixth Form.

In the primary communities there are approx 150 in each building; in seniors there are approx 100 pupils in each year so 200-300 pupils per group.

roisin · 21/10/2005 18:23

Wow - I'm shocked at how high your school fees are. Here they're £5.5k pa for secondary, plus c.£200 compulsory extras (lunches and swimming), plus c.£200 for uniform. Other optional extras such as instrumental tuition.

Also scholarships of 1/3 off school fees are available; both academic and means tested.

AND the "late class" (= after school supervision) is free, and the school day is longer at both ends, which makes childcare less of a headache.

No wonder it's in the Times Top Ten value for money.

alibubbles · 21/10/2005 21:07

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Hulababy · 21/10/2005 21:16

DD's private school fees (if she goes) will cost us approx £5.5-6k a year for pre prep and prep, and a little more at secondary age. It works out at about £400 a month (spread over 12 monhts) to start with for us anyway. Full time nursery would be dearer.

Hulababy · 21/10/2005 21:17

Oh and the £400 a month includes all food (including a high tea), morning and after school care until 5pm, milk and fruit, ballet, music (but not individual lessons), and smaller trips.

aloha · 21/10/2005 21:18

God, I'm paying £300 a month for TWO DAYS at nursery. And only 9-4.
And now childcare for dd. Will have to seriously rethink or will be headed for penury.

speedymama · 22/10/2005 08:46

Out of interest, for those teachers who work in the state sector but send their children to private schools, why don't you work in the private sector? Is it because the benefits (ie pension, holiday and sick pay etc)in the state sector is better than that you would receive in the private? Are you more accountable and open to more critical scrutiny in the private sector?

I ask because I find it curious that one can criticise the state sector system but still teach other people's children without allowing your prejudices to tarnish your attitude towards them. Also, by avoiding the state system for your own off-spring, are you not also criticising your own abilities as a teacher as well as those of your colleagues? After all, if a school has a problem, is this not down to the stakeholders (ie teachers, pupils, parents, governors etc)involved in the school?

Personally, I do not believe either sector to be perfect and ultimately, from my own experience, in terms of achievement, motivated state educated pupils will be just as successful as motivated privately educated pupils because I believe it is down to the individual. I also believe everybody should do what is right for their own circumstances. I just find the idea of someone berating a system that is not good enough for their own off-spring but good enough to fund their lifestyle choice that involves not using that very system for their own children as distasteful and dare I say it, hypocritical.

Hulababy · 22/10/2005 08:56

You are assuming that the reason why state school trachers use private schools is because they don't like the state system though. Many of the teachers I know of who use private schools do so for many other reasons.

As I have already said, I have now left the state system after becoing so unhappy working in a failing school - to such an extent that teaching full stop is something I wanted out of, at least for a while.

I have chosen private (most likely anyway) for many reasons. After visiting our local state school - which has a great reputationand excellent records - I was concerned about class sizes, and the difficulties I would encounter getting Dd to and from school when I was working. The prep school we have chosen includes morning and after school care up to hurs that are better for our circumstances.Dh cand rop Dd off on his way to work, knowing she is going to get a decent breakfast (he can stay hif he has time for some too!) and I can collect her after school, knowing she has been looked after, with her friends, had some snacks and had some play time (when older homeowrk may well have been done too). Class sizes are also much smaller - 18 to a class. Therefore I know that she will get more one to one attention when in class that in a class where there will be 30+ children (local state school has 2 classes and 70 children).

I personally don;t think it is a reflection on any individual teacher at all. It may well be a reflection on state education and the system in some cases. But ost of the teachers I know do a really good jobin difficult circumstances. It is the system, not the individuals, that are letting our childrendown.

Hulababy · 22/10/2005 09:01

I do think it is a little niave (from my own experiences as a teacher) to believe that a hard working, motivated children will do just as well in a poor or failing school as in a good school, regardless of sector. It simply is not the case. Yes they may do wel, but in a good school with all the opportunities and encouragement, they will do even better. Sadly this IS true. One of the very reasons why I was so fed up last year. I knew that in the school I taught at I was not teaching to my very best. I was working hard and doing what I could, but most of my time I was doing class/behaviour control, not teaching.

BTW I did work in a very good state school prior to that and loved it, and I would definitely have sent my child to that school - providing I could get my child to and from easily, etc.

homemama · 22/10/2005 09:09

Speedymama, as Hula says, most teachers who have made the decision to send their kids private have done so for a number of reasons. For us, first and foremost it is an issue with class size. I know that smaller class sizes make a difference. Other benefits include wraparound care that fits in much better with working parents. I don't assume that the teachers in a state school aren't up to the job, only that they don't have the same resources available to them.

As for teaching in the state sector myself, I enjoy it and its challenges (just don't want DS facing those challenges). Also, I think you'll find that state sector teachers are held more accountable for their work and are held up to more scrutiny that they would be in the private sector.

Blandmum · 22/10/2005 09:20

Like homemama, I aslo enjoy teaching in a state school. I like to feel that I can have some small influence on the lives that the children I teach will have in later life. However I am not prepared to let my children syuffer if I can place them in a school that better meets their needs. I am only doing the same as many other parents and feel no need for my children to suffer for my choice of vocation.

Far from feeling hypocritical I know that I spend my working days, and a large portion of unpaid time (I work part time but give up my own time to work with specific kids) working to better choldrens education. But there is a limit to what I can do as a single teacher.

Still and all, its nice to get called a hypocrite on a public forum. makes me feel nice and warm inside. So good to know that my , not inconsiderable effors, are being valued by people who make a blanket judgement without knowing me, or my children, or our circumstances.

Ask yourself this one, speedymama, how would you feel sending your child to the school where a child had her face slashed this week?

Hulababy · 22/10/2005 09:24

That school is in the town I live in. It is in a really notouriously bad area, and the school has been in and out of special measures.

homemama · 22/10/2005 09:24

Also SM, if you've found a state school local to you that offers everything you want then that's great. That's all any of us want. But if your kids came home and told you how an entire lesson was disrupted because of the behaviour of others or you went in to see how the teacher struggled to get round a class of 34, 7yr olds then you may change your mind. Your mind may also be changed if you needed to find before and after school childcare so you could get to work at 8 and leave at 5!

homemama · 22/10/2005 09:30

And before anybody tuts at the suggestion I leave at 5, that'll be the marking and prep and my own free time I give up to offer extra maths lessons and after school clubs which hopefully they enjoy and which in turn helps there working parents! Very cross!

Blandmum · 22/10/2005 09:33

Homemama, snap. If I could send my kids to a stste school that met their needs I bloody jump at the change. As you and I both know teaching is hardly the most lucrative job in the world, is it?

Blandmum · 22/10/2005 09:35

And whatever next, if you work at M and S you can only shop at M & S. If you drive a taxi, you can't ever travel by bus.

Why is it that teachers, as well as being everones favorate punching bag (sometimes literaly), have to be whiter than white in parts of their life that have no impact whatseoever on their teaching ability or profesionalism?

SueW · 22/10/2005 16:39

Already happening - if you work at microsoft, you can't google; if you work for Coca Cola you can't drink Pepsi.

Cam · 22/10/2005 16:47

Speedymama, a question for you:

Is the teacher (a woman I know) who teaches at a private school but sends her sons to other (better) private schools also a hypocrite?

Blandmum · 22/10/2005 16:53

or if you work in a state school and send you children to a better state school (allmost universal this one)

Do they check the bins for the empty cans btw Total arse and the people working for the companies shouldn't have to put up with that sort of invasion of their private life

Cam · 22/10/2005 17:06

That's an accusation of unprofessionalism Speedymama.

If you worked on the checkouts at Lidl would you treat your customers less well because you buy your groceries in Waitrose?

RottenRhubarbWitch · 22/10/2005 18:25

I wonder then, if private schools would take on problem children or those with special needs? Yes, these are the kind of children that take up half the time of the teacher, but what do you suggest we 'do' with them?

The state school where I used to live was very good, it was multi-cultural, the children learnt all the religious festivals, they also learnt how to be patient with the children who had special needs, they had teaching assistants who would help with those children and the problem ones so that the class wasn't too disrupted. Compare that to the private school where the majority of children were white middle-class. I wonder what that school was teaching them about life and acceptance?

Blandmum · 22/10/2005 19:14

The school where mine go have 15% of the children on the SN regester. They have kids with ADHD, aspergers, dyslexia et all. Our local state 'comprehensive' has 1.5% on the SN regester as the kids who go there have to pass an enterence exam. Head has taken over another failing school and has not repaced the LSW's becuaes in his words, 'we will not need them as we will not be having as many sn children coming here'.

Descrimination isn't just something that happens in private schools.

This last week my white son has celebrated Sujjot, he has also celebrated eid and divali. And all of this in a c of e private school

Blandmum · 22/10/2005 19:14

sorry sukkot!