Does anyone REALLY send their children to private school?

[Mosschops30]

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of course they don't open their doors to everyone who wants to come. universal education for all is the responsibility of the government. the fact that the overall quality of the universal education they provide is shockingly bad is a reflection on the government, not on private schools. if the state system was better there would be fewer private pupils (why do you think private education has increased so much in the last 10 years, despite high increases in school fees?)

saying that the state system is crap because of the private sector is completely back to front.

I am trying not to look at the DSs' schooling in terms of mere academic attainment at all.

But other things are more important. I was taught in a class of eight when I was little - but by a terrifying psychotic bully of a teacher.

Just to hijack - Marina have a look at the 'I've been chatted up' thread!!

And worries about homogeneity of state provision are also connected to the tyranny of literacy and numeracy hour teaching, as implemented by the high-SATS "achieving" state primaries in badly "underachieving" London boroughs.

I don't know Marina. I just googled research class sizes and got this.

Rhubarb, the school my two kids go to has used some of the money it makes to build, not a golf course, but a non selective state school in London.

I agree with much of PPH's last post.

Hey, I didn't vote for dick4brains!
Do agree that state schools should be made much much better. Instead of blowing up Iraq, how about educating our children as to where Iraq actually is????

But it is terribly unfair that the poor once again suffer, in health and education and about everything else!

Thanks dino. I can't help feeling that class size could be more of a factor in early years teaching, but was not aware of any research to back my hunch.

There has been an increasing perception that state schools are rubbish - I'm just not sure that it's always based in reality.

I also wonder whether the wealth explosion in London and the South East has something to do with it. In my experience yer East End barrow boy trader who makes good and buys a big house in Chigwell invariably sends Poppy and Alexander to private school because he sees it as the right thing to do, without actually pausing to look at the state schools nearby at all.

the poor always have and the poor always will rhubarb.

the key is to raise living standards so the poor aren't so poor.

which if you compare life now to life 80 years ago (or life for the poor in developing countries) has certainly happened..... but there is a long way to go.

martianbishop - I find that quite odd. wouldn't you rather they just charged you lower fees?

golf course?
snort

(it was an exaggeration)

Dino, it is christian educational school that sees part of its duty to support education as a whole. While I could find a home for the cash, I am glad that it is going to do something useful

"Private schools are just making the state schools worse and worse because the only people in state schools are going to be the poor and the couldn't give a shits. "
Agreed but why should your child suffer because of your principles? thats putting an abstract belief system above your childs happiness.

"I'll put my kids into a state school because I don't want to protect them from life. If they have brains, then they'll do just as well as in a private school, with a little help from home. "

Brains will only get you so far, I'm a NLP practitioner and one thing that teaches you is that we all learn in different ways but that state education is only taught in one way. (yes of course some private schools are the same but at least they have more of a choice)
As for learning about life - this is the grounds my parents kept me in a failing state school that was rife with pupil-pupil and teacher-pupil bullying. All it taught me was how to be scared, and get beaten up by yobs and picked on bullying adults. I can't think of any circumstances as an adult where having experince of dealing with awful 15 yr olds has helped me in my personal or business life.
I did terribly in my GCSE's although I am academically bright due to bad teaching, yes my parents (teachers) tried to help but they couldn't be expected to cover the whole GCSE curriculum on top of their day jobs for two teenagers. I left and went to a good state sixth form and left with 4 A levels.

Regarding the schoolgate culture, yes it can be very intimidating if you don't fit in. However it goes both ways, my only choices if we are still here in 11 years time are the local state school (which was bottom of the league tables last year) where if parents put in an appearance its gnereally to threaten teachers, or drag their kid home with fag hanging out their mouth. Or the local independant secondary school whose founding ethos is 'For the training of intelligence in whatever social rank of life it may be found'
Guess which one I'd rather use?

(oh and for the next few years I'm a community governer for said state school in an attempt to see if I can help!)

P.S apol for spelling/typo's 6 mnth old wants to play with moms fingers

So, how do we change the system so parents have a real choice? What about a voucher system, so parents could take their voucher to any state or private school? We've had that type of system for nursery education in Scotland and it seemed to work. I believe that part of the argument for a voucher system is it would make it easier for parents to set up their own schools, if they so wsihed. Would vouchers work?

Apparently it works in Sweden (doesn't everything ) Think more schools set up by parents could potentially be wonderful.

Yes I am a snob. But not about income, about attitude.
I've taught in inner city areas where parents on very low incomes have done wonderful jobs bringing up their kids. Those kids were enthusiastic, polite and willing to learn. I would have no problem with my kids mixing with theirs because essentially they have the same values as us. Low income doesn't need to equate to bad behaviour.

BUT, these kids did suffer because too much class time was taken up handling the kid who was throwing the chair or the one telling me to F**k off.

KatieR, we liked Beaver Rd but WDids. not in Catchment. Also found it a little cramped. Interestingly though, the private prep on Barlow Moor Rd received a very bad inspection report but as they're indep. they don't have to publish it.

Riab, are you sure you're not Harriet Harman?

That post was not intended to sound patronising at all, before anyone jumps on me.

I think the children that do well at bad states schools would do well anywhere. It's the average ones/need a bit of extra help/coaxing/good environment that concerns me.

My local secondary school had 896 pupils in 2004 & the GCSE results were 29% where the average is 54%. Truancy is a major problem. However, the local authority has recognised the problem & is attempting to do something about it. Let's hope they do something quick to provide better prospects.

Lol, Aloha! I didn't know they had that sort of system in Sweden. The other thing I like to bang on about is Human Scale Education. I truly think many of the problems schools have could be solved simply by having smaller schools. Imo, any school that has over 1,000 pupils is too unwieldy; it's impossible for all the staff to know all the children and once you've lost that you've lost contact with the child.

I don't think, in secondary schools, iyt is the size of the school that is the key. You can have a large school and as long as there are excellent heads of house/year , in place as well as well supported form tutors size isn't an issue. In fact you need to have a fairly large school if you ae going to have enopugh properly trained staff to teach a wide range of subjects.

The key is the class sizes. If you have a class of 30 you can only give them half the time you can if you have a class of 15. It is quite simple. If you add into that poor standards of diciline , half of your time can be taken up with 'dealing with' (note I do not say educating) one or two individuals.

Class size and dicipline, there is no third thing.

Oh I suppose class size, dicipline and general school ethos......and stll no-one expects the Spanish Inquiaition

Riab - I'm a teacher in a good, over-subscribed state secondary. I've just spent 4 hours listening to some over-paid buffoon tell me stuff I already know about NLP/differentiated learning styles - we have this stuff coming out of our ears! AND we apply it - on a daily basis.

I've got no quarel with NLP - can be very useful - but it's something of an over-generalisation to assume we sit 40+ kids in rows & make them copy off the board for hours, before throwing them to the wolves of playground bullying so they can be mugged & brutalised...

You obviously had a very negative experience of state education, but it's not all like that!

This is a bit of a 'parp!' subject for me - my kids will be going state because I can think of FAR more productive uses for the £20k it would cost p.a to have them go private - but I can quite see why some parents don't feel they have a choice. It's just not a given that state schools are all badly-run holding pens for trainee sociopaths.

I do like that website Suedonim. Makes me feel a bit sad that more schools aren't like that.