Does anyone REALLY send their children to private school?

[Mosschops30]

Message withdrawn

It's a shame that this thread started as one munsnetter asking if there were any other 'ordinary' parents ot there who sent their kids to private school and it's ended up like a breast/bottle debate.

Fees aren't always 10k pa. Many average earners do prioritise it. But, many others, no matter how hard they work, still can't afford it or would even choose it.

One one side people are offended at the assumption that if go private, they must be wealthy and on the other people feel they're being called bad mothers if they don't.

We need to step back and realise that we're all p*ssed off at the same thing. The crap system.

No- I'm not pissed off at the crap system personally, homemama, because I don't accept that it is universally or even overwhelmingly crap, though clearly there are pockets of dreadfulness and the admissions system in some areas is poor. It's done excellently by me, my partner, the majority of my friends and, even more importantly as far as I'm concerned, by my children, so far. I do realise that's not everyone's experience and find that sad but I am not prepared to write the whole state system off as crap quite yet.

Agreed Homemama. I have been saying the same thing about the state education system although some schools are excellent.

I'd like to think we could all get together and sort it out but actually I don't think the schools or teachers are the problem either (though any good school will acknowledge it can always improve and teacher training could certainly be better). It's a much wider problem to do with social deprivation, lack of support for parents, lack of parenting skills, poverty, unemployment and of course, the govt with its endless reforms (which seem based on arbitrary personl decisions or electioneering and not on solid research or what teachers and parents want)and bizarre priorities.

Totally agree that home input is vital and can make a huge difference.My ds has always been to excellent state schools so we are very lucky as private for me is out of the question financially and morally(don't shoot me just one opinion).I went to private and never recieved the sort of emotional guidance ds has had although academically I can't fault it it was sterile and cold in other ways

But Scummy, the situation is crap is it means that all parents don't have access to decent state schools in their area. I can think of far better things to spend the money on if they were available to me. We don't just go private so we can post on here and be abused for it you know.

rhiann, I think you've missed my point a bit.

I am questioning whether it's always healthy for a parent to invest their all in paying for their children's education.

If it means parents really struggling, moving home, moving jobs, working long hours, sacrificing a low paying but preferred career for a higher paying one, leaving friends and family, all in the name of school fees and a dream, then I think it can be quite dangerous.

Fine if you as a person are happy with your lifestyle. It's your life too. If however you as a person are not happy and resent the sacrifices, then it's a risky investment IMO. How will you feel if that investment doesn't pay off? How will you feel about your child?

Who knows what the future holds - a happy, bright and promising child can turn into a teenager at total odds with school. And what sort of burden does a teenager carry, knowing their parents have invested so much in their education? Aren't you raising the stakes, risking family harmony when parents put their dreams for their child's future in private education? Isn't it human nature to expect more of your children if you have sacrificed so much for them?

Now, as you say, exclusion can happen to any child at any school. No guarantee that in my husband's case, he would not have fallen foul of state schools too. But I wonder if his parents would have felt the quite same about his rebellion if they had not moved continents, left jobs, homes and friends for his education? I can't answer that of course.

I can make some guesses though. The effects of having a child excluded from a state school IMO is probably going to backfire on the averge parent a slightly different way. Most state school parents haven't made such huge lifestyle and financial sacrifices to give their child an education that is free.

Of couse any caring parent is going to feel upset about their child's problems at school. Of course lots of private school parents are not going to take it as a personal blow if their child fails at school. But I do think there must be an increased risk of fraught relationships between parent and privately educated child if that child refuses to toe the line. That's my own reason for not wanting to push private education on my children. We could only do it if we really struggled. Because of this, I do not want my children to carry the burdon of my dreams for them. But then, I have managed to find a good primary school for them, and ds1 is at a grammar school. Had they been at bad state schools, I might feel the sacrificace for private education was worth the risk to family harmony.

FWIW, my husdand was state educated in New Zealand for all his primary and some of his secondary years and got on fantastically - an eager, model student who dreamed of becoming a vet. The New Zealand state education system did him proud, but as many others have said, he was lucky.

I take your point Tigermoth to an extent. I think if parents feel they are making a huge sacrifice, and especially if they express that to the children, that is a very negative position to be in. I prefer to see it as a lifestyle choice, and I will certainly endeavour never to let me boys feel that they have to justify their education in any way.

I share some of Rhiann's opinions here. If my boys go to private secondary school (and it seems likely) they are not going because they are more likely to get into Oxford that way, or because they can take 14 GCSEs there, rather than 8 at the local comp, or any other 'academic' reason. But rather they are going (hopefully) because in my best judgement at the moment they would be unchallenged, unfulfilled, and most likely very unhappy at the local comp. These are partly 'academic' things, but it is because they are 'academic' children - that is part of their personality, that is where their strengths lie. If they were very skilled sportsmen I would not send them to a school where such talents were not valued by other children, and not particularly nurtured and encouraged by the school.

Of course you're right Tigermoth. If you'd paid loads of money for your child's education and they failed all their exams (unlikely since the school has a 99%A-C rate) or got excluded you'd be gutted. But most parents would be gutted if this happened to their children whatever. And, as has been exemplified many times on this site, people make huge sacrifices for their children's state education too. If we wanted to be in the catchment of a good school we'd have to move out of our town, double our mortgage at least and still have a smaller house. I'd almost certainly have to leave my job since I can't drive and am reliant on public transport to get there which means we wouldn't be able to afford the mortgage, we'd have to take my dd2 out of nursery where she's happy and so on. Other people have years of church going to get their children into a good school and others have home tutors to get their kids into a state grammar school or have to put time aside to tutor their children themselves because they don't feel their kids are learning enough at school etc, etc.

But strangely enough parents of kids who go to private school have common sense too. Obviously, if my children weren't happy at school I'd re-think and take them out if necessary. Problems at school tend not to happen overnight and any half-way caring parent would keep a close eye on their child's happiness and progress at school and do what they could to help them.

As I've said I want to choose private school (and it's a particular one I know not just the idea of private school) because I think my children would be happy there. I'm actually wondering what I'd rather spend my money on and, you know, it all seems really insignificant in comparison. I'm not interested in cars, don't care much about clothes etc, it would be nice to go out a bit more (but with young children and being a teacher I think I'd be saying that anyway). I live in an area which is a bit dodgy or considered to be but I'm happy here. Yes, I'll have to work hard and long hours for the rest of my life but I like my job and at least I'll be paying into my pension. I think I'd be doing that even without children.

Like many of you I pay hundreds to nursery each month and all I expect from that is my children will be happy and cared for. I don't see it as an 'investment' at all.

rhiann, of course lots of parents of state school educated children make sacrifices - moving to the catchment area, private tutors etc - but surely they have a bit more leeway in deciding how much they will sacrifice.

Take me, I paid £50.00 a month for about six months for my son to join a small class for 11+ coaching once a week. I could have paid much more for a private tutor twice a week for two years, as other parents did. My younger son goes to a church school. We did have to attend church, but not every week - and I like going and being a small part of the church community. Neither son is baptised, the school don't insist on this. The church commitment at our chosen church school could be much stricter. So no huge sacrifices or compromises here for me. My point is sacrifice for un fee paying schools can vary a lot, as the education itself is free.

Private school fees have to be paid every term for all those many terms your child is at the school. If not, the bottom line is your child will have to leave the school. Ok, you have burseries and scholarships but these only go so far. For a family stuggling to afford private fees, that termly financial burden is not really negotiable, is it?

Afternoon Tigermoth, the gang have just gone to see Nanny McPhee so I've got a couple of hours to myself.

This one always gets soooo heated doesn't it?!

I consider myself a normal parent that sends their children to PS. As others have already said there is a lot more to it than just the fees. Uniform, day trips and holidays, countless charities you're expected to give to too. Then there's the party merry-go-round, the other children and mummies with their designer gear and designer cars, whopping great houses with horses and land and fabulous holidays. Depends whether you can cope with all that really.

I like to wear my Primark fleeces with pride for the school run!

I don't see there's an argument here Tigermoth. If people send their kids to private school then they're obviously prepared to make that financial commitment - if they find it a struggle that's their lookout isn't it? If their kids aren't happy at the school they can look elsewhere. If they feel their kids or the school don't live up to their 'investment' then that's a shame and perhaps they're choosing private school for the wrong reasons.

Moving areas so my kids will be in the catchment for a good school would involve sacrifices (financial and other) I personally am not prepared to make. At no point did I suggest that I am better than anyone else because I'm choosing the private school option or even that my decision is better - it's just right for me and my kids. If you've got a good local state-school that's great - lucky you. I haven't. If you haven't but choose to send your kids there anyway out of principle then I genuinely admire your courage and I hope you and your kids are happy with your choice. If you wish you could send your kids to private school but can't afford to then I'm really sorry - of course, every child should be able to go to a good free state local school - but that's not my fault. If my kids' health depended on treatment they could only get privately (God forbid) then I'd go private for that too. If that makes me a bad person then I'm sorry.

Interesting posts Tigermoth, bringing yet another element into the ps/ss debate! Are we doing it for them (the kids) or ourselves? We say for them (cos they're the ones at school) but I take full responsibility for where I've placed my dd.

I suppose your PILs should really have thought they were making those choices on your dh's behalf and therefore borne any consequences with good grace?

Private healthcare. Have been in the position you mention almost. DD could wait months for diagnositc tests on NHS or have them in less than a week privately. Had already spent months stuffing around on NHS. DD was fading. No health insurance and some consultants won't accept you without it. Told secretary would pay cash upfront if necessary. At that point I would have sold my home and everything I owned and lived in a tent to find out what the hell was going on.

She had diagnostics and op privately in less time than it would have taken to get up the waiting list for a barium swallow.

Quite frankly anyone who wants to can give me as much sh*t as they want to for that. I did it cos I could. And I'd do it again if I could and I needed to.

I'm fortunate in that my children have had good state schools to go to and tbh I know very few people whose children have gone to private school. But I think Tigermoth makes a good point about who the private ed is for. I've observed further up the line that some uni students come under an awful lot of pressure from parents due to the financial weapon the parents can wield. Of course, unlike pupils, students are adults and can do whatever they wish but I've seen the misery in families where parents feel their 'investment' in their child has been 'wasted' because the child has dropped out, maybe because they were forced onto the wrong course in the first place and other scenarios.

With regards to the pressure. Interestingly one of the reasons I have chosen a particular private school is becasue they don't do SATS and I feel that SATS at primary level puts children under too much pressure too early.

There is a lovely state c of e primary in the next county to us and I know the headteacher. Her ethos is to look at the whole child and to educate accordingly with emphasis on music, drama and sport. How I wish I lived near to her school but I don't so to get that same ethos locally we are going private.

interesting posts - just to clarify, I am not knocking private education. I am not saying state education for all, given the present reality of state schools. Not everyone is lucky enough to live near a good local state school. I would consider private education for my sons if they did not go to their 'good' state schools.

But I am questioning the idea, expressed earlier on this thread, that sacrifice for your child's private education is automatically 'a good thing'.

I am not sure how healthy it is to turn your own life upside down for the sake of giving your children what you consider to be a better start in life. Sometimes it will be the the best thing - a decision you'll never regret whatever the future holds. But I do think the balance between your personal sacrifice, and your child's education needs to be carefully considered. What if things go wrong, what hopes are you pinning on your child? How will the years of struggle and stress to keep your child in private school impact on the whole family?

I think any huge, life changing sacrifice you make for any member of your family needs to be questioned closely.

I just don't think that 'who is private education for - children or parents?' is a very good one. Did your neighbour's child choose that nice state Catholic school down the road or did you neighbour choose it for her? Did your neighbour's child even choose to be a Catholic? It wasn't my choice to go to a state school where I was bullied for wanting to learn - my mum and dad chose it because it was convenient and their principles and budget didn't allow them to choose a private school.

While our children are too young to make their decisions for themselves their parents make them. Sometimes we get them right and sometimes we don't (my dd's latest hair cut for example).

I personally am choosing private school because I know the school and think my children will be happy there. I also know the local state schools (and my partner has done supply in most of them). My 'dream' is for my children to be happy and I do not see it as an 'investment' any more than I am 'investing' in their nursery fees at the moment so I can go out to work. If they aren't happy there or making progress I will rethink.

I'm sure there are parents who send their children to particular private schools or state schools for the wrong reason (never met any mind). That's a terrible shame. Maybe their children will suffer for their decision maybe they won't.

Children can be pressured to 'achieve' (whatever that might mean) or to live up to their parents' 'investment' at a state school too or in other areas of life (what about those parents who sign their children up to a modelling/ acting agency?). I know someone who went to state school and always felt she was disappointing her parents. They felt they were 'investing' in her just by bringing her up and they ruined her life. This is really the parents' problem and nothing to do with private school.

rhiann, I am most particuarly, questioning the idea of making huge financial sacrifices for your child's education - the sort of financial sacrifices that have a big imnpact on everyone else in the family. That means any education you have to pay for - so that means private of course. (And also state education in certain circumstances when you 'pay for it' through moving to a catchment area).

yes, of course some parents will put pressure on children no matter what school they attend. But I think the risk of putting pressure on children when you are paying through the nose for their education must be greater.