A little concerned about ds1's teacher...long!

[marthamoo]

Now I know teachers are only human and they do make mistakes. Not a problem. But ds1 has just gone into Year 4 - what are we now, 4 weeks into term?

So far:

He came home with the word "traditionary" as one of his spellings. Now it is a word (I didn't think it was, I've never heard it used, but I looked it up) but I was fairly sure it was a mistake. I said he had probably copied it down wrongly and it was likely to be traditional or traditionally.

I went to parent's evening (just one where the teachers tell you what kind of thing they will be doing over the academic year). One of the parents asked the teacher about the word "traditionary" - at which point about 8 others piped up and queried it too. Mrs X looked completely blank - and said "well, do you have a dictionary at home?" It was fairly obvious that was what she had written on the board - and she couldn't see why we were querying it.

Anyway - that's not so bad. It did turn out to be traditionally in the test, btw.

So on to numeracy. I posted one of the questions of ds1's maths sheet which he had trouble with last week (which is why I asked for help finding the thread last night and QofQ kindly found it for me). The question was

4 = [ ] - 10

Ds thought it was 6 (reading it backwards) and I said it was 14. I wanted to check though 'cos I'm crap at maths Anyway I was right.
Ds1 came home yesterday and said "hey, Mum - I was right about that sum - it was 6. You made me put the wrong answer!" ???? Do they do maths differently these days? Incidentally, I didn't just 'tell' him the right answer - I explained why that was the right answer.

He had another maths sheet this week. One of the things was writing the time on a clock face. This sheet he brought back - he got it right, it's been marked wrong.

I don't know whether to go in and query all this, or whether to let it go. I feel a bit cross about it - you learn from your mistakes, but you learn from what you get right too, don't you? I mean, it's only 3 little things but - 3 in 4 weeks? Plus, from an aggrieved mother PofV, it is galling to be told that she must be right because she is a teacher - implication being that I know nothing

Shall I just let it go?

Errrr, I'd have been in there asking why she's got it wrong on the first thing.

but then I hate being wrong and wouldn't be able to let go.

Really think you should query it though.

No don't let it go, because if you do it will be so much harder to go in after another 4 weeks and another 5 mistakes. Do you know any of the other mothers who queried the traditionary word? Are they also finding the work to be wrong? It's easier to have support in this kind of situation.

I'd definitely go in along the lines of "Are you using a different method to teach x as, according to the maths/English I learnt at school, the answer to this should be y, but you've marked it as wrong? I like to help my son with his work, but I'm finding it difficult if I don't know the method you are employing."

That way she has the option of blaming it on the method rather than her own inadequacies. If it continues after this, I'd raise it with the head. These years are the foundation of their education. If the foundation isn't solid, the rest will be so much harder for the children.

query it in a "I really want to be a concerned parent and help ds1 with his maths so please explain why its not 14" type way.

clock face I guess you have to let go, but sounds like she's going to confuse them all with the maths.

wow dunno about the English spelling as spelling and I were never great mates at school and she may just have accidently put the wrong letter oon the board and not even noticed (been there done that and been told all abot it by the kids Of course it was done o purpose to see if they would spot it). So that by itself I would not be too worried about.

However that as well as the maths problem is somethign to worry about. The answer to the question is 14 as equations are read from left to right without exception so it can be written as 4=14-10 or -10+14=4 or 14-10=4 . This is a very fundamental basic maths principle and it si very worrying imo to have a year 4 teacher who doesnt understand that because heaven help the kids when they get to secondary school and start doing algebra if they havent been taught the basics right.

Havign said all that not sure how you do approch the teacher abot it tbh but something along the lines of can you explain why the answer is 6 when everything I have been taught leads me to believe it is 14.

Hmmm, I'm no expert, but surely 6 - 10 = -4?

I used to be a classroom assistant, and would point out spelling mistakes to the teacher, with a "hope you don't mind me saying, but...". Dd1 is hyperlexic and would get confused by incorrect spellings as she couldn't bring herself to believe that the teacher had got it wrong!

Difficult position to be in, Marthamoo, as the teacher obviously doesn't like to be confronted with mistakes - but I think Freckle's ideas are very good.

Sorry, I've just realised that I have contributed nothing useful to this discussion at all....

Funny, on nearly everything with teachers I like to do softly softly and supportive but with this one I'd be steaming. Do you have a class rep? I think I would see what other parents are noticing. Bet there's more.

I do think I would bear in mind that beginnings of terms can be a bit disorganised. I think I would probably say something along the lines of how carefully ds1 likes to do his homework, and there seem to have been a few things getting through the net. And then watch to see whether it improves.

I think you're all right - I'm going to have to go in. I'm going to let traditionary go but I will query both the maths things - in the way jimjam's suggested. The only thing is he didn't get the maths sheet back with the sum on - so I haven't got 'proof', but maybe that's an advantage - I can say it in a "ds1 said he got that wrong but surely not" kind of way. He did get the one with the clock on back - so I can take that in with me. Thanks chaps

just a thought - could she have written "traditionally" on the board in such a way that the two l's looked like an r? It's easy to smudge stuff on a whiteboard.

Not uncommon, sadly, marthamoo.

We had a whole range of this kind of thing with dd1's Y5 teacher last year, including teacher-generated spelling lists with glaring errors in, 'criteria' and 'bacteria' being given as examples of nouns that are the same in the singular and the plural, a pyramid being described as a tetrahedron. And so forth, tediously. Marking errors were not uncommon too, with correct answers being marked as wrong. Teacher was Australian, so some errors may have been down to different UK usage, but some were just wrong, whichever way you cut it.

Further problems then arose from the fact that dd1 is a little know-all who couldn't resist correcting the teacher, who in turn either couldn't see or wasn't prepared to admit that she'd made a mistake. We had a few nasty incidents where dd1 was punished for arguing, despite being clearly in the right. It did make me spitting mad, tbh, but I gave up going in because there was clearly nothing to be gained. Also, as you mention, there was never any explanation, either verbal or written, of why particular answers were wrong -- it was simply marked right or wrong, usu by the pupils themselves. IMO that kind of setup makes it more likely that teacher mistakes will slip through uncorrected.

So do take it up with the teacher, in as non-confrontational a way as you can, but don't hold your breath.

Grrrr.

Not uncommon, sadly, marthamoo.

We had a whole range of this kind of thing with dd1's Y5 teacher last year, including teacher-generated spelling lists with glaring errors in, 'criteria' and 'bacteria' being given as examples of nouns that are the same in the singular and the plural, a pyramid being described as a tetrahedron. And so forth, tediously. Marking errors were not uncommon too, with correct answers being marked as wrong. Teacher was Australian, so some errors may have been down to different UK usage, but some were just wrong, whichever way you cut it.

Further problems then arose from the fact that dd1 is a little know-all who couldn't resist correcting the teacher, who in turn either couldn't see or wasn't prepared to admit that she'd made a mistake. We had a few nasty incidents where dd1 was punished for arguing, despite being clearly in the right. It did make me spitting mad, tbh, but I gave up going in because there was clearly nothing to be gained. Also, as you mention, there was never any explanation, either verbal or written, of why particular answers were wrong -- it was simply marked right or wrong, usu by the pupils themselves. IMO that kind of setup makes it more likely that teacher mistakes will slip through uncorrected.

So do take it up with the teacher, in as non-confrontational a way as you can, but don't hold your breath.

Grrrr.

ooo - so that's why you wnated that thread

I'd definitely say something. Obvsiouly teachers are all humans, and we all make mistakes, but there does seem to be some "worrying" ones in there.....

I would definitely say something. this is the kind of thing (if it is more than a one off) that can really affect the attitude of the children towards learning. If the children don't respect the teacher then IME they can start to get very disillusioned.
I once got a detention for laughing when a teacher tried to tell me that potato ended in an "e" (like Dan Quayle, but a good few years before) -I honestly thought she was joking, but never listened to a word she said after that. waste of a year.

All this has reminded me of a friend's little girl who was told by her teacher that the j - word she came up with for a quiz - "jinx", wasn't a proper word and was, in fact, a rude word The poor child was in tears, but stuck to her guns, and was sent out of the room.

Her Mum went in the next day clutching a bookmarked dictionary and got a begrudging apology.

I'll go in and speak to her next week (inset day today). I have a feeling I may get a similar response to you though, frogs.

You can tell her you have corroborative evidence that 4=14-10 because your friends on a website agreed with you too.
Agree with everyone here. Ds' Year 1 teacher occasionally made minor grammar slips in his contact book which we did not return corrected in red ink, but all the stuff in his classroom work was correct and accurate.
I think this kind of thing is also critically important the higher up the school you go.
Good luck with raising it moo and let us know how you get on. Freckle's and jimjams' strategies sound good and I hope you have more luck than Frogs.

Marina, what a good idea. Then she'll think I'm a complete loony

Or - worse alternative - she'll say "ah, come in marthamoo - I was wondering which parent you would turn out to be"!

Well I've been in....

The clock one she says she wrote the answer on the board and ds1 must have misread it and marked his own work incorrectly (they self mark, apparently).

The equation? 4 = [ ] - 10 ?

She insists the answer is 6 because you read it backwards. She likened it to a set of scales - with the equals as the pivot and each side has to balance. I said yes, exactly, and so each side balances left to right. She says not - you read backwards towards the equals sign. I fought the urge to say "but Mumsnet agrees with me!" She says she will check it but is certain she's right...I don't hold out much hope. What can I do?

So next time ds1 has a question like that am I supposed to tell him the wrong way to do it so he will get the 'right' answer?

Grrrrrrrrr.

NO she is so wrong. What about in secondary school when they start doing algebra surely that can't be done backwards?

You are right marthamoo. She isnt chinese is she? They read from right to left .

i corrected my primary school teacher once. I was 8. He looked like Jesus as i recall.

He had tried to teach us plurals ie hoof and hooves, and tried to tell us rooves was a word. I strongly disagreed and he went to check and i was right. BOY did i get picked on for that!

Even if that is the case (reading it backwards) how do you tell when to read it backwards or forwards???

4=14-10
10-6=4 are totally different. Sorry this is making me feel quite het up.

She's saying 10-6=4, isn't she? So she should have written it that way.

Maybe she is dyslexic. (Would that work?)

no - dyslexic isnt about confusing basic logic, its about muddling numbers/letters etc.

I was thinking reversing things, vicki - like b=d. (But not seriously!)

It's making me het up too PollyLogos! It's been a crap day altogether - did 2 and a half hours of work this morning and lost the lot (even dh, computer whizzkid, can't retrieve it ) Ds2 has been a PITA and I want wine but can't have any 'cos I've made a no booze in the week pact and Monday is way too soon to crumble. Can't even have chocolate as I'm dieting.

Grrrrrr some more.

just a thought but perhaps it was -4=( )-10 and she wrote that wrong on the board too.