A little concerned about ds1's teacher...long!

[marthamoo]

Now I know teachers are only human and they do make mistakes. Not a problem. But ds1 has just gone into Year 4 - what are we now, 4 weeks into term?

So far:

He came home with the word "traditionary" as one of his spellings. Now it is a word (I didn't think it was, I've never heard it used, but I looked it up) but I was fairly sure it was a mistake. I said he had probably copied it down wrongly and it was likely to be traditional or traditionally.

I went to parent's evening (just one where the teachers tell you what kind of thing they will be doing over the academic year). One of the parents asked the teacher about the word "traditionary" - at which point about 8 others piped up and queried it too. Mrs X looked completely blank - and said "well, do you have a dictionary at home?" It was fairly obvious that was what she had written on the board - and she couldn't see why we were querying it.

Anyway - that's not so bad. It did turn out to be traditionally in the test, btw.

So on to numeracy. I posted one of the questions of ds1's maths sheet which he had trouble with last week (which is why I asked for help finding the thread last night and QofQ kindly found it for me). The question was

4 = [ ] - 10

Ds thought it was 6 (reading it backwards) and I said it was 14. I wanted to check though 'cos I'm crap at maths Anyway I was right.
Ds1 came home yesterday and said "hey, Mum - I was right about that sum - it was 6. You made me put the wrong answer!" ???? Do they do maths differently these days? Incidentally, I didn't just 'tell' him the right answer - I explained why that was the right answer.

He had another maths sheet this week. One of the things was writing the time on a clock face. This sheet he brought back - he got it right, it's been marked wrong.

I don't know whether to go in and query all this, or whether to let it go. I feel a bit cross about it - you learn from your mistakes, but you learn from what you get right too, don't you? I mean, it's only 3 little things but - 3 in 4 weeks? Plus, from an aggrieved mother PofV, it is galling to be told that she must be right because she is a teacher - implication being that I know nothing

Shall I just let it go?

Popsycal, thank you!

OK, (takes a deep breath) I'm coming out as a maths teacher, and Moo, she's wrong. Even if you were going to go into the negative numbers explanations, there is no way he should be doing this at year 4. That would confuse even my A level students.

I'm also horrified at the idea that you need to keep the school sweet by not complaining about incompetent teachers. We all have bad days, but it is beyond the bounds of professionalism to take it out on the students or family if you have your mistakes pointed out to you.

Complain to the school!!! (So says she who is notorious for sending back dd's nursery notices covered in red pen corrections )

this is simple. equals means equals. therefore the teacher is right with the "pivot" concept - the things on either side of the equals sign must amount to the same, whichever side you start on.

but reading backwards is a separate issue to do with our reading conventions. the statement [ ] - 10 means "an unknown number, minus 10". in this case, that has to be 14.

you cannot siddenly decide to start reading a whole sum backwards, because that changes the meaning. in this case the right side of the equation says [ ] - 10. if it meant 10 - [ ], it should be written 10 - [ ].

binkie in maths there cannot be two, equally valid answers (certainly not at this level anyway).

sound to me like the teacher is so desperate to avoid admitting she f*ed up, she's trying to make up a load of nonsense. you must take it up - you have every right to ask your kids be taught correctly, especially maths fgs.

i agree everyone makes mistakes but a teacher should be willing to admit it and learn from it.

i dread what i'm going to be like when i have kids in school! i will be a royal PITA with any teacher who acts like this!

Oh dear, I don't want to be set up as someone who thinks this mirror-image presentation is in any way defensible - I'm just saying that, for me, in its bizarre way (where each single component of the calculation is read right to left - contrary to your calc. below, which still relies on the "[ ] - 10" component being read as a block left to right), it has a coherent logic. It's for MM's ds's teacher to explain & justify, if she ever will.

Hey, no two answers, ds said of "x squared = 36", "x could be 6 or negative 6". But I can't explain him either.

Think I'll step out altogether now.

Just want to point out.....in my experience, children who struggle with maths would give the exact same answer as the teacher......

It is quite interesting really...but very veyr annoying.....

sorry to be a bit firm binkie! (see what i mean? i will be a nightmare!)

but maths does work in a set way, kids need to learn it and teachers need to understand it so they can teach it.

confusion about punctuation and grammar is bad enough but at least those rules
are illogical and confusing. but if teachers are allowed to start bringing theor own interpretations into maths.... well... hell in a handcart, gone to the dogs etc etc mumble mumble.

theor should the their of course

Thass OK, and of course I agree (think I said it in my very first contribution) that she shouldn't be doing this ... also I realise that, being a literary type, were this all about apostrophes I would be being a bit less, shall we say, relativist.

But I still really really want to know whether the teacher can give us a good account of herself!!! MM, please?

Yes, I am 100% with you on this laligo.

You have managed to put in a much more succint manner what I was trying to say yesterday. Whether we are talking positive or negative numbers, inversing calculations (eg 4=14-10 or 14-10=4) or complex algebra maths is always read from left to right.

I just feel that this teacher is setting the children up for a lifetime of confusion if she allows them to believe that sums can be read either way. I have the utmost respect for teachers, coming from a family full of them and just embarking on a second career in TEFL, but feel this must be sorted.

binkie that's because a minus x a minus always equals a + as far as I know. hth

binkie that's because a minus x a minus always equals a + as far as I know. hth

groat, thanks! - I've got a way to go, I think.

(great name, by the way)

marthamoo - finally got round to asking dh about this last night (he's a Cambridge-ed mathematician and a chartered accountant/Financial Director, so reliably numerate) and he was furious about this.. he kept saying "but it's just wrong!" and muttering about no wonder standards are slipping etc etc.
this morning he sent me a link for home education! so I sent him one back about re-training as a maths teacher.