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Original poster

A little concerned about ds1's teacher...long!

164 replies

marthamoo · 30/09/2005 10:45

Now I know teachers are only human and they do make mistakes. Not a problem. But ds1 has just gone into Year 4 - what are we now, 4 weeks into term?

So far:

He came home with the word "traditionary" as one of his spellings. Now it is a word (I didn't think it was, I've never heard it used, but I looked it up) but I was fairly sure it was a mistake. I said he had probably copied it down wrongly and it was likely to be traditional or traditionally.

I went to parent's evening (just one where the teachers tell you what kind of thing they will be doing over the academic year). One of the parents asked the teacher about the word "traditionary" - at which point about 8 others piped up and queried it too. Mrs X looked completely blank - and said "well, do you have a dictionary at home?" It was fairly obvious that was what she had written on the board - and she couldn't see why we were querying it.

Anyway - that's not so bad. It did turn out to be traditionally in the test, btw.

So on to numeracy. I posted one of the questions of ds1's maths sheet which he had trouble with last week (which is why I asked for help finding the thread last night and QofQ kindly found it for me). The question was

4 = [ ] - 10

Ds thought it was 6 (reading it backwards) and I said it was 14. I wanted to check though 'cos I'm crap at maths Anyway I was right.
Ds1 came home yesterday and said "hey, Mum - I was right about that sum - it was 6. You made me put the wrong answer!" ???? Do they do maths differently these days? Incidentally, I didn't just 'tell' him the right answer - I explained why that was the right answer.

He had another maths sheet this week. One of the things was writing the time on a clock face. This sheet he brought back - he got it right, it's been marked wrong.

I don't know whether to go in and query all this, or whether to let it go. I feel a bit cross about it - you learn from your mistakes, but you learn from what you get right too, don't you? I mean, it's only 3 little things but - 3 in 4 weeks? Plus, from an aggrieved mother PofV, it is galling to be told that she must be right because she is a teacher - implication being that I know nothing

Shall I just let it go?

OP posts:
yoyo · 04/10/2005 12:02

Frogs - sadly none of it surprises me anymore but I think I will always be angry about it. DD requested extension work last week as the literacy was so basic; she was told by her teacher "I only set one homework and you'll do the same as the rest". A desire to learn is no longer promoted it seems. Is mediocrity the standard to which our children are encouraged to aspire to?

frogs · 04/10/2005 12:05

I think they're encouraged to do precisely as well as is necessary for the school to maintain its position in the league tables. Anything else has PITA potential and is actively discouraged.

popsycal · 04/10/2005 12:08

Frogs and yoyo......if that is your experience, then your jids are int he wrong school or have to wrong teacher. I would be horrified if pupils and parents felt like this about me....

And I promised I would not get drawn into any more education threads

cazzybabs · 04/10/2005 12:11

Oh god - I made spelling and grammer errors all the time when marking - sheer volume and I am crap at spelling. Do try not to though, but I am sure you all make a few mistakes when you are doing your work (wether they be typos or simple errors) amd I probably make errors marking maths because I am trying to do it at lunch or at the end of the day when I always seem to get disturbed, but always correct it when the child points if out.

But the maths thing is wrong!

yoyo · 04/10/2005 12:24

Popsycal - don't worry, I do know that there are many excellent teachers out there who are very dedicated to their work. My daughter has never been particularly enthusiastic about maths but this year they have split two year groups by ability and she loves it. She thinks this teacher is wonderful and I think she has cleverly tuned in to their needs. What I dislike is children being knocked back for wanting to do more. It is not a case of wanting to show-off or be better than others just a genuine interest in learning.
I also think there is no excuse for not checking through the work that is set - surely that is just laziness? We are only talking about one sheet of A4 after all.

frogs · 04/10/2005 12:27

I think it goes beyond individual teachers, popsycal it's more to do with the head, the National curriculum and the government. We've had individual teachers that have been quite good this year's one looks promising -- as well as some that have been truly terrible. But there is no real commitment at school level to supporting higher-ability children, particularly now that they can no longer put children in for Level 6. And the children can see this quite clearly too. The only proper G&T provision my dd1 has ever encountered was set up 4 weeks before an ofsted inspection, and was pulled two weeks afterwards. How is it possible not to become cynical in the face of this kind of attitude?

I'm sure there are individual schools with inspired management who can see beyond the percentage of L4's in Y6. But possibly not many.

yoyo · 04/10/2005 12:39

Frogs is right about the L4 in our school too. The emphasis seemes to be on attaining government targets not for each child to attain his or her potential.

Eaney · 04/10/2005 12:45

I think 14 is the answer too but isn't it interesting that your son's impulse was the same as your teacher. Is this a coincidence or is he looking at things like his teacher would?

Original poster
marthamoo · 04/10/2005 12:48

Wow. Lots of posts. I never wanted this to turn into a teacher-bashing thread (it hasn't - but it's not my intention to have a pop at teachers in general). Hell, most of my friends, my Mum, and most of my Mum's friends are teachers Thus far, ds1 has had excellent teachers and I've had a good relationship with all of them. I have a feeling this may be our Annus Horribilis though...

For now, I'm perching on the fence. Dh is livid and wants to go in but I've persuaded him to hang fire (wish he'd gone in the first place, tbh, he's mathsy and sciencey - but that was when I thought she would realise her mistake). I'm not going to the head (not over this anyway) - ds1 still has 3 years to go in the school and ds2 doesn't even start 'til next year so I want to keep things sweet. I'm still hoping she will get back to me and admit she's wrong - I will definitely be keeping a very close eye on his homework from now on. And if another question like that comes up, I'll help him to do it right and tell him, up front, that teachers are human and she's got that theory wrong. And be in like a shot if he gets another X by it!

Thanks so much to everyone who posted - especially those who did research and emailed maths experts!

OP posts:
Original poster
marthamoo · 04/10/2005 12:52

Eaney, I know - it's funny because I am not instinctive about maths at all (I checked the answer on MN before I helped him to do it!) but it seems just natural to read it left to right, as you do text.

Four equals something minus ten

not

Four equals ten minus something.

I don't know why ds1 read it backwards either

OP posts:
Original poster
marthamoo · 04/10/2005 12:53

Or even ten minus something equals 4.

It just doesn't make sense! Aaargh, my head is hurting again.

OP posts:
binkie · 04/10/2005 13:31

(Just like mine did last night when dh started going on about Reverse Polish Notation )

Our very nice nanny who is about to start teacher training asked whether perhaps the teacher wanted to get the children "thinking outside the box" mathematically. Don't think so, I said.

motherinferior · 04/10/2005 13:48

Binkie, you listen to your partner?

sallycinnamon · 04/10/2005 14:46

In my previous life as a mentor of newly qualified teachers I came across someone who came out of uni with a first in her teaching degree yet every time I went into her classroom she was making huge mistakes. Firstly there was mixing up oesophagus and sarcophagus (no I don't know what sarcophagus means but I know its nothing to do with human digestive system!) Then there was 100 divided by 2 equals 10 and finally she was teaching her kids about the world famous Beijing tapestry!

popsycal · 04/10/2005 15:14

BINKIE....
grammar books....do you really want them?
can recommend if yes..

binkie · 04/10/2005 15:16

Yes, honestly I do. For me too. You could do a CAT if this is just too outre.

popsycal · 04/10/2005 15:28

who is it for? and what age?
and do you want it really old fashioned or more 'new'

binkie · 04/10/2005 15:35

Well, for now I suppose should start with primary rather than secondary age, but I'm keen on the whole range really. I only learned grammar at all by doing foreign languages, while for English I've just always relied on what "felt right". Which is silly, and now that ds (who's year 2) asks me things I'd like to know why I answer as I do. (As well as feeding his inconveniently capacious brain.)

popsycal · 04/10/2005 15:52

or tyop

vess · 04/10/2005 21:16

I started reading this thread and now I really want to know: WHY are they teaching kids mirror image equations? To me it sounds not like a mistake but more like a not-very-well-thought-of 'clever' IQ test-type question or something ridiculous like that. Which is why MM's ds thought the answer is 6. They must have been doing something like that in class. But why?

The reason why it's not very well thought of is this: The equal sign (=) works BOTH ways, right? Whereas plus (+) and minus (-) and stuff work left to right, always. 10-6 is not the same as 6-10.
Now, because normally we write x-y=something, doesn't mean that we can't write something=x-y.
Yes, but it does, it you follow that teacher's logic. By her logic, you can only use the (=) sign ONE WAY, with the result ALWAYS on the right. If the result is on the left, then that means you have to read it backwards (????)

What is the thought behind this innovative approach to maths? Don't get it, but it can't simply be a mistake, you can't be semi-literate (let alone a teacher) and make a mistake like that.

yoyo · 04/10/2005 21:30

When we were taught equations we never looked at the whole equation to be read as going one way or the other. We were taught to isolate the unknown on one side of the equals sign and take everything else over to the other side changing the sign as you did so.

4=x-10
x=4+10

I can remember everyone chanting "change sides, change signs".

This teacher appears not to understand the equality sign or the negative sign.

popsycal · 04/10/2005 22:26

pssssst
not change sides change signs anymore

all about balancing....
but you are right....she doesn't have an idea about equality....

spookymoo · 04/10/2005 22:29

I hate maths.

pixel · 04/10/2005 23:45

Well! Maths doesn't come naturally to me (just managed C at o level although wasn't too bad at algebra) but I immediately had the answer as 14. Couldn't see how it could be anything else and still can't despite all your clever explanations. My dh, on the other hand is great at mental arithmetic etc and helps dd with her homework, but when I asked him what he thought the answer was he said 6 straight away! When I protested he started getting a bit stroppy and I couldn't be bothered to argue so I'm none the wiser. Might ask dd (aged 9) in the morning though, maybe shed some light on current teaching methods?! (or prove dh wrong ).

Btw I had to pick dd's teacher up on a mistake on a spelling list the kids were supposed to learn. She wasn't offended (maybe I'm just tactful ha ha) and put up a correction in the classroom window for all the parents to see. If she had insisted that she was right I would have returned with evidence!

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